Felder's "Heaven and Hell" Discussion Thread

[chaim]

By the way, this is my favourite part of the book: "I make no excuses for my bahaviour." Then after one sentence, "The others would have been very suspicious of me if I hadn't joined in".

[chaim]

Just remembered just about the only thing that actually BOTHERS me in the book (meaning that not only irritates, but bothers). Don talks about "I can't tell you why", and how it was a chance for him to play "some really sensual guitar". He also writes about saying to Timothy, "I'm gonna have some fun working out my guitar parts for this". But what he fails to say (for some reason) is that Glenn played the lead guitar parts in the song. I assume that by his own guitar work Don means the rhythm guitars, which DO work cleverly together, sort of a "call/response" thing between the one in the left and the one in the right speaker. But by leaving out the fact that Glenn played the lead parts, many people are led to believe that Don played the leads also; "confirming" the misconception started by the fact that Don mimed the solos in the video, and played them live, because live Glenn had to decide between lead guitar and electric piano, both of which he played in the studio version.
Of course it has been well documented; in the album credits and later by both Glenn ("the unique guitar stylings by yours truly") and Don Henley (who has praised Glenn's lead work in the track); that Glenn originally did the lead parts, but still...
Anyway, if it really doesn't bother Glenn's ego, that thousands of people don't know that one of Felder's most loved solos is actually his, it doesn't seem to me that his ego is as big as Don Felder suggests.

This post reminds of a funny thing Glenn once said in an interview (in the 80's or 90's): "The bass players...(laughing) The bass players always chose me to play lead in their songs". When you look at it, it's true (Take the devil, Tryin', Certain kind of fool, Is it true?, Try and love again, I can't tell you why) In "Too many hands" Glenn does only half of the lead work, probably because the bass player wasn't the only writer of the song

(whoa, I must have edited this a thousand times)

[GettheLeadonOut!!]

I agree chaim that Glenn's lead guitar work is very underrated. My favorite Glenn solo is "Try and Love Again" which to me is absolutely sublime.

To me Felder owes his career to Bernie Leadon who was a loyal friend that continuously encouraged his playing and endlessly encouraged him to move out to L.A. When he finally did, things finally took off for him after Bernie introduced him to his inner circle, most notably the Eagles. Talk about knowing the right people! Once aboard Eagles Ltd, Felder's sense of entitlement gets really out of whack

[Freypower]

Congratulations to both of you for those two posts. I could not agree more.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

from me too on your comments, chaim and GLO - very good observations, IMO.

[sodascouts]

Very true, chaim. You have to wonder why Felder felt the need to leave that out. Some people believe if they don't overtly tell a lie but simply allow others to believe a falsehood - carefully phrasing things in ways that will lead people to believe the falsehood without technically lying - that somehow it's OK. To me and to the people who are deliberately misled, though, there's no difference between that behavior and a lie.

GTLO, I think Glenn has a complex about his guitar playing by being surrounded by people like Bernie, Felder, and Walsh who could play with more expertise. He underrates himself as a result, I believe. I agree with you - he's a very emotive guitarist (I saw that with my own eyes in Niagara Falls when he played "I Dreamed There Was No War"). I don't think he gives himself enough credit, and I know he doesn't get enough credit from the outside.

[chaim]

A little correction to my previous post. I said that many people are led to believe that Don played the lead parts ALSO. I'll take the "also" word out, and rather suggest that many people are led to believe that Don is actually talking about the solos. I mean, especially in the case of "I can't tell you why", when one says "a chance for me to play some really sensual guitar", which one would most people think he's talking about? The solos that everyone raves about, or some rhythm guitars that most people probably don't even notice?

[chaim]

I still haven't read all the posts in this topic, but I just went through a few dozens more. There was a comment somewhere along the way about Felder deserving a credit for the bass part in "One of these nights", which he explains in the book to be his contribution. I just had to comment. The way I see it, with the same logic quite a few of the songs in which the players have come up with their own parts, should be credited to the whole group. There's a line somewhere between writing and arranging, which, of course is never very clear. In the old Stanley-written KISS songs the main guitar riffs are often Simmons' bass parts that Stanley and Frehley decided to play also. Black diamond, Firehouse, Love her all I can, Room service (chorus riff)....all those "big guitar riffs" are bass parts that Simmons added later, which eventually became the main riffs. Still, he isn't in the credits, because he's never felt that he cowrote the actual songs. To him they're just little bits added later. Simmons also wrote the whole middle section in Frehley's "Cold gin". Still, he didn't feel the need for a credit, because the actual song was Frehley's. It always amazes me how people sometimes want credits for even a tiny drum fill. (Of course, as far as I know, Don himself has never cried for an official credit for that bass part!) Having said that, I think it's highly possible that "Hollywood waltz" was one of those "change a word, gain a third" (in this case a "fourth") songs for Glenn.

[GettheLeadonOut!!]

I think you're right that Felder is implying that he wrote the "sensual" guitar solo in ICTYW, another outstanding solo from Glenn and a song that he takes great pride in having co-wrote with Tim. I wish he'd play it live again instead of keyboards. Another classic Glenn solo is Witchy Woman...nice work Roach!!

and I agree that Glenn is much too modest about his guitar abilities. His slide playing isn't too shabby either, my favorite is his work on Randy's "Is it True?". I also miss the Leadon/Frey banjo/slide interplay on Midnight Flyer & Earlybird.

[chaim]

I think you're right that Felder is implying that he wrote the "sensual" guitar solo in ICTYW, another outstanding solo from Glenn and a song that he takes great pride in having co-wrote with Tim. I wish he'd play it live again instead of keyboards. Another classic Glenn solo is Witchy Woman...nice work Roach!!

and I agree that Glenn is much too modest about his guitar abilities. His slide playing isn't too shabby either, my favorite is his work on Randy's "Is it True?". I also miss the Leadon/Frey banjo/slide interplay on Midnight Flyer & Earlybird.

Yes, it would be nice to see him play it. If I was in Glenn's position, my ego would have forced me to play it live after Felder's firing, if only to show the world that "hey, I wrote the thing"! It bugs me when I see people bashing Steuart Smith's version of the solo and compare it to Felder's version. Most of these "YouTube commentators" don't even know that it was originally written and played by Glenn. Not that Felder isn't a great guitarist, but I actually prefer Glenn's original, and one big reason is that he doesn't overinterpret it, like to my ears even Felder did. There are a few bits where I love Glenn's way to play them; just straight, without trying to play every note with "divinely expressive interpration" (like playing notes a bit late).
Now that you mentioned the slide...I don't mean to make Glenn out to be the world's greatest guitar player, but an interesting thing happened when I watched Eagles' New Zealand gig from '95. The most spine tingling moment for me was when Glenn played slide in Smuggler's blues. I wasn't waiting for "Glenn the slide player", or even the song. The song just came and the playing took me away. Of course the effect may have had a lot to do with the fact that Glenn had been sort of "waiting in the weeds" guitarwise until that point. But it was amazing to hear him play that slide. There wasn't even one note out of tune that I noticed.
I 100% agree with you on that banjo/slide thing. And the slide playing at the end of "Midnight flyer" sounds AWESOME!