Felder's "Heaven and Hell" Discussion Thread

[RoryO]

Well, I guess I don't see DF's story as either tragic or sad. I also don't see any relationship between his non-Eagles career and the what we should or shouldn't think of him. Having once been in the music business and living/seeing much of what he described, I thought it was a very good portrait of what happens when big money influences former values. If what DF recounted is in any way true, it once again reveals the hypocrisy of former "all for one and one for all" bandmates when it comes to both personal self-agrandizement and big money (including their manager). My inclination is to think there's probably a great deal of truth in what he says, both because of his own self-critical remarks and because of my experience with some of the other "big names" in the business - watching how they treated each other despite their public espousals. I agree, the music is still great (saw them with the Dixie Chicks recently - a great show) and I love their newest CD. No criticism of the music, but an interesting behind the scenes recounting of big money, drugs, and human frailties. I'm afraid I could recount many other similar stories in the music industry (though this is not the only place it happens certainly), though I suspect most folks know that already. Glad to hear the particulars of one long time Eagle's experience. Also, nice to know that the remaining Eagles settled with DF over the money disagreements before it went public in court. RO

Does anyone else see Felder's story as somewhat tragic?

To some extent it is sad, because he's been denied the chance to continue in the only career he knows. But in my opinion he brought everything that happened to him on himself. He had 14 years, and now has had 8 years, to prove that he had what it took to carve a separate career for himself, and he has been singularly unable to do so. Should he continue to blame Frey and Henley for this, or should he look within himself for the reasons? It's OK to talk about 'business and the arts' colliding but where is Felder's alleged art apart from his obsession with the fact that he co-wrote one song?

I honestly was prepared to give him a chance if he had tried to put the Eagles behind him the way both Bernie and Randy did. But he can't. In this instance, that is where I find myself agreeing with JAHH's use of the word 'tragic'.

As for his former bandmates rejecting him, perhaps Joe and Tim may not have wished to reject him, but I think that Glenn Frey would have told them in quite specific terms that they had no option. I think that Don Henley basically shares Frey's view on this.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

First of all, FP, I did not mean to imply that Joe or Tim had a deciding ‘vote’ with regard to Felder’s dismissal. However, I also don’t believe that Glenn would advise them on whether they should remain on friendly terms with him or not. Of course, none of us know for sure, but I believe that they were free to decide that for themselves. Having said that, in all probability, all of the band members may have been subjected to prohibitions or gag orders while the lawsuits were being litigated.

Having once been in the music business and living/seeing much of what he described, I thought it was a very good portrait of what happens when big money influences former values. If what DF recounted is in any way true, it once again reveals the hypocrisy of former "all for one and one for all" bandmates when it comes to both personal self-agrandizement and big money (including their manager). My inclination is to think there's probably a great deal of truth in what he says, both because of his own self-critical remarks and because of my experience with some of the other "big names" in the business.

RO – this is a fair observation based on your unique experiences. Most of us here have no such experiences. However, I have heard enough stories to believe there is probably quite a bit of truth in some of the things that Felder claims. I don’t recall anyone who posted in this thread who claims that there were no truths in the book. I think we can all accept that there were money, power, and ego struggles that occurred and that these things can be destructive. However, my problem with Felder is that he gives the impression that he is exempt from this, and all he cared about was the music.

I also think it is true that when we discussed the book in this thread, we made more judgments about Felder than we did the other band members. We judged Felder based on his own accounts and perceptions that he himself gave us. We don’t have that same information to judge the other band members. Speaking for myself, when I made a judgment or said I thought Felder was wrong about something, that doesn’t necessarily mean that I thought Don Henley or Glenn Frey was right and vice versa. I judged Felder based on the facts that I knew and his own words – not what others said. The difference is that I don’t have Henley or Frey’s accounts, so I can only judge them on the facts I know. It is no more fair to judge them on what Felder says, than it is to judge Felder on what Henley or Frey say.

[MikeA]

While the lawsuit was in full swing, there was according to Joe a "gag" on discussing anything having to do with it. When directly asked about it, he confirmed that none of the current members of the band were allowed to discuss it by advisement of their legal representatives (lawyers I presume though it might have been issued by the court). As I said before, Joe indicated no personal animosity toward Felder...but he didn't indicate a "blood brother" relationship with him either. He respected him as a musician indicated some remorse that he couldn't maintain close contact because of the legal actions in process. He was guarded about his comments about Don, weighing each statement carefully before commenting. Clearly he was uncomfortable discussing the issue.

But it is very common to have legally binding restraints about any discussion of the end results of legal actions such as that connected with the out of court settlement of something like this Felder vs Eagles Ltd lawsuit.

The current abstinence of comments about either Felder or the suit by the Eagles concerning it could be either mandated by the settlement or it could be from legal advice or it could simply be orders mandated by the Eagles Ltd to their employees NOT to discuss it.

Fact is they are NOT discussing it for whatever reason and I suspect that is the way it will remain. It obviously is not in their best interests to focus on the "event" which implies strongly to me anyway that if they have talked about it by now they are NOT going to talk about it in the future. Whatever speculations anyone makes about it at this point are just going to be speculations given the lack of information of what has become part of the record available to fans and other curious parties <smile>

[Glennhoney]

..okay, now I don't want to ruffle any feathers..just stating my opinion...

I read Heaven and Hell in November 2007...had a friend send it over from England..and it was basically what I thought it would be...a "not my fault" biography....Don Felder tried to get some more money, have more say and he lost....happens all the time...whether it's in a rock'n'roll band or just your ordinary day job...

What I didn't appreciate was the blame he put on everybody else for his mistakes...like cheating on his wife...well Randy was married and he was doing it too...pppllease...

And it seemed to me that Glenn and Don Henley were ALWAYS the cause of the problems...hey I've learned over the years that the others are not always at blame...sometimes we tend to have a little something to do with it ourselves...such is life...

I laughed when I read the part...and I can't recall what band he was talking about...but he was saying how "that band" got along great and even went on vacation together...get real...who wants to go on vacation with people you work with everyday??????

Now as much as I love Joe and Tim..and I DO love them...the band EAGLES is Glenn Frey and Don Henley...you can change the bass player, you can change the lead guitar player, but you can't have the EAGLES without Glenn and DOn........and that's the way it will always be...they are the "Gods", without whom you would never have had the amazing past 40 years or so........

So unfortunately, Don Felder learned that he COULD be replaced...like the saying goes.."even the pope can be replaced.."nobody is indispensable...and although I DO miss him as part of the group...the band is doing quite well without him...so who's the loser here???????????

[EagleLady]

Well Put GH, and I agree 100 %

[Brooke]

Very good points Gh. But this one is the best:

...the band EAGLES is Glenn Frey and Don Henley...you can change the bass player, you can change the lead guitar player, but you can't have the EAGLES without Glenn and DOn........and that's the way it will always be...they are the "Gods", without whom you would never have had the amazing past 40 years or so........

Here, here!

[TimothyBFan]

..okay, now I don't want to ruffle any feathers..just stating my opinion...

I read Heaven and Hell in November 2007...had a friend send it over from England..and it was basically what I thought it would be...a "not my fault" biography....Don Felder tried to get some more money, have more say and he lost....happens all the time...whether it's in a rock'n'roll band or just your ordinary day job...

What I didn't appreciate was the blame he put on everybody else for his mistakes...like cheating on his wife...well Randy was married and he was doing it too...pppllease...

And it seemed to me that Glenn and Don Henley were ALWAYS the cause of the problems...hey I've learned over the years that the others are not always at blame...sometimes we tend to have a little something to do with it ourselves...such is life...

I laughed when I read the part...and I can't recall what band he was talking about...but he was saying how "that band" got along great and even went on vacation together...get real...who wants to go on vacation with people you work with everyday??????

Now as much as I love Joe and Tim..and I DO love them...the band EAGLES is Glenn Frey and Don Henley...you can change the bass player, you can change the lead guitar player, but you can't have the EAGLES without Glenn and DOn........and that's the way it will always be...they are the "Gods", without whom you would never have had the amazing past 40 years or so........

So unfortunately, Don Felder learned that he COULD be replaced...like the saying goes.."even the pope can be replaced.."nobody is indispensable...and although I DO miss him as part of the group...the band is doing quite well without him...so who's the loser here???????????

Well stated!!

Please don't replace the bass player please don't replace the bass

[Scarlet Sun]

Here, here!

Please excuse my correction, but it's actually "hear, hear!"

I actually like what the Eagles did before Felder joined the group better

[EagleLady]

Please excuse my correction, but it's actually "hear, hear!"

I actually like what the Eagles did before Felder joined the group better

You are correct it is hear hear

[Brooke]

Please excuse my correction, but it's actually "hear, hear!"

My bad!