Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 5678910 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 99

Thread: Songwriting Techniques

  1. #81
    Stuck on the Border NightMistBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Randyland
    Posts
    3,785

    Default Re: Songwriting Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by travlnman2 View Post
    I am looking to go to College for Audio Production applying this fall. I hope to take songwriting courses as I play Bass, Guitar and Piano and don't want to g t stuck playing covers .
    That's cool, Travlnman - good luck to you.

  2. #82
    Stuck on the Border Annoying Twit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Leicester, UK
    Posts
    3,384

    Default Re: Songwriting Techniques

    This thread has stopped. But, I'm still working on understanding Eagles chords better, and have been coming up with chord progressions that follow their pattern (not always, but sometimes) of a standard chord progression with one change. I'm going to have to work more on my vocal melodies and again Eagles seem to be a good model to study. I've been working on my rhythm guitar playing as once again Eagles songs often have a simple but well played acoustic rhythm pattern which helps define the feel of the song (E.g. BoML) and if I can play that sort of thing more myself, and come up with more plausible patterns myself, then that will help. I do own the Native Instruments 'Strummed Acoustic' plugin, but being able to do that sort of thing myself will make it more direct.

  3. #83
    Stuck on the Border NightMistBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Randyland
    Posts
    3,785

    Default Re: Songwriting Techniques

    Good luck to you, AT. I hope you'll keep us apprised on your findings about Eagles composition patterns.

    It's challenging to find adequate time for music. I have this pesky full-time job that eats into my schedule.

  4. #84
    Stuck on the Border Annoying Twit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Leicester, UK
    Posts
    3,384

    Default Re: Songwriting Techniques

    I think part of what I need to work on is not only understanding what good melodies do, but also working on how I can create them. It's not as easy as just knowing what's good, and then suddenly excellent melodies will flow out. If we look at the most talented people in the world who are full time musicians with decades of experience will often write substandard songs. (I don't want to name examples, but there are certain 70s stars who have lost their muse.) If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

    Looking at Eagles songs, then like many good songwriters they are able to make good use of more or less stepwise motion where there aren't big jumps between notes. 'Chug All Nite' appears to follow that pattern on a cursory listen, but the music shows bigger jumps. It doesn't sound dramatic however.

    The Last Resort I've mentioned. There isn't a strong dramatic melody there, and the chord sequence is simple and straightforward. But, it works. I think it's probably in the phrasing.

    On the other hand, look at Take It To The Limit. Much more dramatic melody. Much more defined rhythm. Melodically it breaks the pattern for the other songs, but it's definitely an Eagles song.

    I think one lesson I need to learn is to have more development of phrases. E.g. Best Of My Love starts with:

    Every night [simple phrase, sounds a bit incomplete]
    I'm lying in bed [simple phrase but an extra syllable, still sounds a bit incomplete]
    Holding you close in my dreams [an extended phrase compatible with the previous one, offers some resolution]

    I tend to repeat a phrase a bit too much without variation.

    Eagles melodies tend to use the chord tones with some exceptions sometimes as passing notes but sometimes as more 'featured' notes. I think I need to practice singing the different chord tones over guitar chords so that I can put them in my melodies. I think I tend to go for the root note too often, while most melodies use it less, mostly focussing on thirds and fifths of the chords.

    Is this post too navel-gazing?

    EDIT: If I get my strumming usable, able to strum a good variety of rhythms with good timing, then I have a bonus waiting for me upstairs in a cupboard. A long unused mandolin If I work on things sufficient, could I justify buying myself a banjitar?
    Last edited by Annoying Twit; 06-23-2016 at 06:22 AM.

  5. #85
    Stuck on the Border NightMistBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Randyland
    Posts
    3,785

    Default Re: Songwriting Techniques

    No indeed, it's not too navel gazing. I agree that the construction of effective melodies is the very heart of the matter in songwriting.

    I mentioned earlier about getting an evaluation of a song I'd written from a professional songwriter, and he advised me to further refine the melody, "make it undeniable." I spent a whole weekend working on it, as well as playing and deconstructing songs whose melodies I admire, reading relevant texts on composing melodies, cursing my lack of talent, etc.

    I was able to come up with several alternate melodies, but nothing that would frighten Paul Simon out of the business. Because I was unwilling to rewrite the whole song (there were bits I thought worked well and so wanted to keep), the new bits felt "tacked on" and couldn't be developed fully without disrupting the existing bits. Am I making any sense? No.

    I was driving myself up the wall, so I just gave up. Better to start fresh on new songs, 'cause re-writes are hell.

    Someone who I feel is an excellent melody writer is Carly Simon. I'm thinking in particular of "That's the Way I've Always Heard It Should Be" - verses are predominantly minor chord, chorus is major chord. The melody has a wide range (tessitura?) with one big jump in particular. "Haven't Got Time for the Pain" also has a rangey melody.

    On her other well-known songs, she employs quite a few tempo changes (Anticipation; The Right Thing to Do; We Have No Secrets) and other elements to keep the listeners on their toes.

    Ofttimes, her melodies are just plain gorgeous: I particularly love the song "James" from the Come Upstairs album.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXJ3i1XERZE

  6. #86
    Stuck on the Border Annoying Twit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Leicester, UK
    Posts
    3,384

    Default Re: Songwriting Techniques

    I'm working on the long term editing of songs too. I've got loads that simply cannot be fixed, but I note Glenn talking about how Jackson worked on things endlessly. They also mentioned how they would work endlessly on songs, changing something here. Unless I get to the point where I can write classic songs in five minutes as some people can, which is unlikely to happen, then I'm going to have to work on it. I had one piece recently where I realised there was too much repetition of a too simple melodic phrase. As I was working in MIDI in Logic, I erased parts of them, and made up new ones. It did improve the track a bit, but my melodies are still too simple, resolve too often (compare BoML), etc.

    The following is a bit of a self-punishing joke. There once was a site where a Japanese woman posted her lyrics for people to write music to. I submitted several. One song had simple love lyrics, and I decided to give my too simple major key inclinations full reign and absolutely go for 100% cheese. It was meant to be a song as the teenage Japanese 'idol' singers would sing. The result says everything that's wrong with my composition. 100% cheese. This is the kind of thing that I will naturally write if I just let things flow - I've got to work out how to make things more sophisticated. BTW: The website has vanished, or at least I can't find it. BTW: Apart from the intro and outro, the main instrument sound is the vocal melody. I don't know the lyrics any more, apart from the chorus line "doki doki suru, anata ga suki yo". (My heart is beating, I love you.)

    https://instaud.io/rnG

    Funny thing was, the lyric writer used to give 'star' ratings to the music that people wrote. The above was one that she gave top stars to. She must have liked annoying pop songs Given the lyrics, it's not impossible that's what she was aiming for.

  7. #87
    Stuck on the Border NightMistBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Randyland
    Posts
    3,785

    Default Re: Songwriting Techniques

    I like that Suki song! It's really cute.

    [bopping my head to the beat]

  8. #88
    Stuck on the Border Annoying Twit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Leicester, UK
    Posts
    3,384

    Default Re: Songwriting Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by NightMistBlue View Post
    I like that Suki song! It's really cute.

    [bopping my head to the beat]
    Too cute. I wouldn't mind if I could write cute songs in addition to more sophisticated songs, but when I try for subtle and sophisticated - I can't do it. Yet.

  9. #89
    Stuck on the Border Annoying Twit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Leicester, UK
    Posts
    3,384

    Default Re: Songwriting Techniques

    This is an attempt to be more 'Eagles' like. I think I get a bit closer on the first phrase, but then I don't know what to do and it reverts. The bassoon melody is meant to be the vocal melody.

    https://instaud.io/rDl

    BTW: The 'guitar' chords need work. I copied the piano track to an acoustic guitar track, and the plugin hasn't worked them out 100%.

    Yesterday I had nine hours of coach travel. I read a fair chunk of a book on melody writing. I think I now understand structural tones in melody, stable and unstable tones, and immediate and delayed resolution of them. This has helped me understand songs a bit better. E.g. why Take It Easy sounds like it really goes somewhere even though the actual notes appear to be just noodling around. It hasn't happened that I can immediately apply these techniques in my own writing however

  10. #90
    Stuck on the Border
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,948

    Default Re: Songwriting Techniques

    A lovely song idea. The elements are simple and basic, but still it doesn't sound like any song I've heard.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •