Songwriting Techniques

[chaim]

Now that you mentioned PEF. That's another song that contains chordal variation. Like you said, the "won't let me down" has a Bsus4-B at some point and a F#m(7) - B at some point. Lyin' Eyes has some variation in the melody every time it gets to "and your smile". In the first verse in New Kid In Town the chords go from I to V, but in later verses it goes II-V, II-V instead of just V.

No matter who wrote the song (or that particular part of the song) there often seems to be some variation in how the chords go - very small variation. From their first album to The Long Run. So I guess it was Glenn who wanted to add that extra color.

[Annoying Twit]

Thanks Chaim.

BTW: In the bridge for Tequila Sunrise there is a modulation to at least one other key. The verse is in G major, but the bridge is:

(Am) Take another (D) shot of courage
(Bm) Wonder why the (E vm-I modulation to E?) right words never come (Am) (B)
You just get numb (Em7) (A vm-I modulation to A?)

The Am-D-Bm progression fits G major, and it's only the major E that goes
elsewhere. Sounds like E is a tonic at that point, so I think that the Bm-E
cadence establishes that). However, Am is non-diatonic to E major, and hence is already goig elsewhere. We then get an Em7-A cadence which seems to establish A major before back to G for the subsequent verse.

Tricky. Can you (or anyone) shed light on this?

[NightMistBlue]

I keep meaning to look up the word "diatonic' and dang it, I keep forgetting.

I came across this rather interesting article this afternoon arguing that chords are lame and melodies are awesome: http://blog.sonicbids.com/songwritin...-think-they-do

[Annoying Twit]

I keep meaning to look up the word "diatonic' and dang it, I keep forgetting.

I came across this rather interesting article this afternoon arguing that chords are lame and melodies are awesome: http://blog.sonicbids.com/songwritin...-think-they-do

Diatonic means that notes come from the scale. E.g. the key of C major has the notes: C D E F G A B C. Hence a note of G is diatonic, but Eb (a 'blue' note) is non-diatonic.

The same applies to chords. The chord of Fmajor has the notes F, A, and C, all of which are in the scale. So, that's a diatonic chord. The chord of A major contains the notes A, C#, and E. The C# isn't in the chord, so it's a non-diatonic chord.

I've been spending time looking at Eagles melodies. I'm not finding much that's particularly unusual. So far, and I may change my mind, it looks as if Eagles songs typically use the 'normal' ingredients, but they do just the right things to come up with melodies that don't sound cheesy.

[NightMistBlue]

That's good to know (both about Eagles melodies and what diatonic means).

A friend encouraged me to ask a professional songwriter to evaluate a song I wrote and recorded. He was very complimentary but urged me to work with the melody some more and make it "undeniable." So that's where I'm focusing my efforts.

[Annoying Twit]

That's good to know (both about Eagles melodies and what diatonic means).

A friend encouraged me to ask a professional songwriter to evaluate a song I wrote and recorded. He was very complimentary but urged me to work with the melody some more and make it "undeniable." So that's where I'm focusing my efforts.

Melody is my weakpoint. I can come up with chord progressions, but my melodies sound stupidly childish. I've just tried writing new music for the verse of "The Heart of the Matter" (except that I couldn't use all the words, missed the last two lines.) And, the result has that looser 'verse' sound that I need to be able to create, but it still sounds poor. I do like the chord sequence though which borrows the G - G6 - G - G6 from the start of Tequila Sunrise but goes elsewhere after that.

I found this interesting (to me at least) youtube video on choosing melody notes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...&v=b7QjTF59kb8

[travlnman2]

It's always good to have an English major your band .

I am looking to go to College for Audio Production applying this fall. I hope to take songwriting courses as I play Bass, Guitar and Piano and don't want to g t stuck playing covers .

[Annoying Twit]

That's good to know (both about Eagles melodies and what diatonic means).

A friend encouraged me to ask a professional songwriter to evaluate a song I wrote and recorded. He was very complimentary but urged me to work with the melody some more and make it "undeniable." So that's where I'm focusing my efforts.

Would it be possible to hear the song? Or would that be being excessively nosey?

[chaim]

Tequila Sunrise...

The bridge starts with a regular II-V pattern (Am-D), which is followed by another II-V pattern (Bm-E). I think even back in the bebop era different II-V patterns would follow each other and could go anywhere. You know, instead of a G major resolution after an Am(7) to D(7) II-V there's another II-V, like Bbm7-Eb7, Bm7-E7 etc. Then at some point one of the II-V's is resolved. So IMO that's what happens in the bridge in Tequila Sunrise. Instead of a G major (I) after the Am, D (II-V) there's another II-V (Bm-E) which is sort of resolved to A minor, although it doesn't stay there. Instead the A minor becomes a IV chord for the E minor that follows after the B7 chord (V for the E minor). The Em7-A7 that concludes the bridge is a sort of II-V pattern, but instead of going to D major it goes back to G major. I don't know what the theory book would say about that chord change, but the c sharp leading tone in the A7 chord does go up to d. The d just happens to be part of a G chord instead of a D chord.

So IMO there are key relationships and the chords go in a logical manner, but it doesn't stay in any particular key until it goes back to G.

[Annoying Twit]

Thanks Chaim. When I was looking around at music books yesterday I came across one which was just for Jazz improvisation over II - V - I progressions. It might have been this one. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Major-Progr...+V+progression

I'm aware of II - V - I progressions in terms of them 'sounding right'. Once you go to II major, the V is where the pull is towards, but I always interpreted this as a secondary dominant resolution. V - I returns to the original key. I see there are books on minor ii - V - I which is another thing I've known of but not realised was such a 'thing' as it is. I was utterly unaware of using them to modulate int different keys (or go to places where there isn't a defined key as in TS). I'm going to have to practice using these to 'go somewhere', e.g. similar to the TS bridge.

Returning to melody, quite a few songwriting advice videos etc. seem to emphasise very melodic melodies. E.g. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6rofP2Fuv8[/ame] But looking at Eagles songs, e.g. The Last Resort, shows how really good songs need to know when to have the in your face melody, and when to be much more subtle/more low key. For TLR, I really like the opening lyrics too. "She came from Providence, The one in Rhode Island." Brilliant low-key intro to a song on a weighty topic.