Felder's "Heaven and Hell" Discussion Thread

[UndertheWire]

Welcome, John. You obviously have something to say but I'm a bit confused. Maybe you could edit your post to make it clearer.

[UndertheWire]

Earlier in this thread, I was trying to work out the timeline for the reunion, and in particular, the “Malibu Men’s Choir”. The consensus was that it was probably late eighties. However, since then I’ve heard a 1992 interview with Timothy in which he mentions working with Don Felder in the near future. At that time (June to early September 1992), Timothy and Joe were both in Ringo Starr’s All Star Band. The first attempt to build a new band included Joe Walsh but Felder decided he couldn’t work with Joe and by March 1993, Joe was on tour with Glenn Frey. That gives a window for the Felder-Schmit-Walsh-Reid band of September 1992 to February 1993. After ditching Walsh and Reid, they recruited Paul Carrack and Max Carl and that would seem to be at some time from late 1992 into 1993.

I understand that working with someone in a recording studio is quite different to being out on tour with them, but it’s interesting to know that Timothy and Glenn both worked with Joe during this period and maybe gives a clue as to why Joe didn’t support Felder later on.

Going back to the book, I’ve realised that its timeline from 1980 to 1994 is a mess. In a recent interview, Felder said that his co-author, Wendy Holden, took the bits he’d written and tried to put them into chronological order and that may explain it.
In particular, I’m thinking of chapter 15 which roughly covers 1984 to 1993. Don describes how his wife became ill soon after the birth of their youngest daughter (Leah, born 1982) and how he became depressed and was put on Prozac until Susan recovered. He then describes the “Malibu Men’s Choir” (1992). Then it’s back to Henley and Glenn getting together over champagne (possibly 1985?), Henley’s third album (1989), the 1990 almost reunion. Next up is Henley and Glenn performing at a charity event in 1993 and Glenn and Joe’s Party of Two tour, then he’s on about a Rainforest gig with Henley, Glenn and Timothy (which I believe was 1990) and some other event where Glenn sent a message from hospital (1986?). Finally, he gets onto Travis Tritt in 1993. To summarise: 1982, 1992, 1985, 1989, 1990, 1993, 1990, 1986, 1993.

Based on the book and some other sources, Don's timeline may have been something like
1981-1984 musically active including solo album, soundtracks and session work
1985-1989 Susan ill, Don the family man, lots of leisure activities (boats, planes, scuba), real estate, tv presenting (?)
1990-1993 trying to get back into music including Malibu Men's Choir
1994-2000 Eagles reunion, decline of marriage
2001-2007 lawsuit and book, new relationship
2008-now building a new solo career

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Lots of research and analyzing, UTW, good job! It's that same section in a lot of books that tends to get a little mushy, and I did notice that Don's was no different. Some authors, ghostwriters, and editors like to take a chronological approach, and others do it loosely with the points they're trying to get across in a certain order. One example is Welcome To My Jungle by Craig Duswalt, who worked with Axl Rose while Guns & Roses were at their peak, and while an informative book, other than the beginning and end, it hopped all over the place, time-wise. It was a small enough book and time period that it worked. It doesn't, really, in Don's book. At least, not for avid fans.

[UndertheWire]

Here's another bit that's been rattling around my brain from reading the book. Various sources have said the relations between Felder and Frey deteriorated during the HFO tour. Apart from money, it's clear that Don resented Glenn making decisions without consulting the rest of them and that he not only questioned Glenn's authority but even his competence.

Don tells the story of the new house mixer brought in by Glenn. Don worries about the guy's experience and goes looking for a problem. He finds something - the mix of one instrument on one song - and makes a big deal about it, bringing in other musicians, producers and eventually Henley at which point Glenn tells Felder to mind his own business. To Felder, his own behaviour was reasonable, but I can see why Glenn, who was in charge of the tour, would see this as interference intended to undermine his authority as well as make life difficult for the new guy. Don doesn't name him, but I'm pretty sure this was JD Brill who is still the house mixer for the band and who is considered to be one of the best in the business these days.

There are many places in the book where Don gives the impression that he thinks Glenn's standards are lower than Henley's and decisions are based on a whim rather than what is best. If Don was like this during the tour, I am sure it created friction.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

You know, when you have a splinter under your fingernail that keeps getting more and more irritating, to the point where the entire finger is jeopardized, a person has to make the decision to either remove the splinter or eventually cut off the entire finger.

A quote from a post I made ( #758 ). So obviously, UTW, I agree with you. So many people read this book and watch the documentary and blame Glenn for being too hard on Felder. Yes, the man knew (and still knows) what he's doing with a guitar in his hands. All I can say is that I would never in a million years put up with someone questioning my abilities and competence and needling at me for seven years, I wouldn't care how talented he was, or even what fans may or may not want. I guess it's for this reason that I give Glenn so much credit (or thinking him a little crazy) for putting up with it as long as he did. He probably put up with it because he felt it was the best thing for the band, and when it was no longer the best thing for the band, Felder was removed.

[chaim]

Also, in his book Don complains about just about everything from HFO onwards. Don's "millennium rap", rehearsed answers in interviews etc. etc. If he felt that way (and that strongly) about so many things, he must have brought a rather negative vibe that way too - not just because he questioned Glenn's decisions and stuff.
Someone made a great point earlier about Don feeling that his own actions were justifiable. IMO that's one major fault in most "let's set the record straight" autobiographies.

[Sebastian]

Someone mad a great point earlier about Don feeling that his own actions were justifiable. IMO that's one major fault in most "let's set the record straight" autobiographies.

Excellent and nicely put. Has anyone read Glyn Johns' book? I haven't bought it yet (hopefully will soon), but I heard he bashes Eagles a bit, which is a shame...

[Jonny Come Lately]

There's a separate thread for discussing his new book here:

https://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/...ght=glyn+johns

I don't think there's anything hugely expected in his book from what I've heard about on here, there are some quotes which remind me a fair bit of the HOTE documentary. I wouldn't say he bashes the band too much although I believe he prefers the work he did with the Eagles to their later music.

[Sebastian]

There's a separate thread for discussing his new book here:

https://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/...ght=glyn+johns

I don't think there's anything hugely expected in his book from what I've heard about on here, there are some quotes which remind me a fair bit of the HOTE documentary. I wouldn't say he bashes the band too much although I believe he prefers the work he did with the Eagles to their later music.

Thank you, very interesting.

Regarding the previous discussion about leadership by the time Felder joined, I seem to remember he already described that in his book when he mentioned the first time he saw the band live. It seems to me that Glenn was already running the show. 'Democracy' and 'dictatorship' aren't the only options, and I think, paradoxical as it may sound, a band can jolly well be a democracy and at the same time have someone leading said democracy.

I really admire how Glenn agreed to (and possibly encouraged) Henley's increasing role as lead vocalist for so many songs, demonstrating how he emphasised what was best for the song, rather than merely seeking to cater to his own ego. He could've easily sung most of those tracks and/or played more lead guitar, achieving 99% of the quality the others did, but he was humble enough to work for the song.

That perfectly exemplifies the famous meme about 'boss' vs 'leader,' Glenn being a good example of the latter. And yes, the fact he was the one who rang Fingers already reflected their dynamics in my opinion.

[chaim]

Thank you, very interesting.

Regarding the previous discussion about leadership by the time Felder joined, I seem to remember he already described that in his book when he mentioned the first time he saw the band live. It seems to me that Glenn was already running the show. 'Democracy' and 'dictatorship' aren't the only options, and I think, paradoxical as it may sound, a band can jolly well be a democracy and at the same time have someone leading said democracy.

I really admire how Glenn agreed to (and possibly encouraged) Henley's increasing role as lead vocalist for so many songs, demonstrating how he emphasised what was best for the song, rather than merely seeking to cater to his own ego. He could've easily sung most of those tracks and/or played more lead guitar, achieving 99% of the quality the others did, but he was humble enough to work for the song.

That perfectly exemplifies the famous meme about 'boss' vs 'leader,' Glenn being a good example of the latter. And yes, the fact he was the one who rang Fingers already reflected their dynamics in my opinion.

This is something a lot of Glenn bashers don't seem to get. And I'm not talking about people on this foum, but perhaps more about those who don't know too much about the band but keep commenting on YouTube and other (non-Eagles-)forums nevertheless.