Long Road Out of Eden

[Freypower]

Now that's interesting. 'Big Brother'& 'Little Brother'?

Throughout their respective solo careers it was the same. Don wrote political songs & Glenn wrote love songs (for the most part) and always it was Don who was praised as the 'mature' songwriter while Glenn was dismissed as a lightweight.

Now you seem to be saying that Glenn sounds 'older' and I assume more thoughtful & considered in songs like It's Your World Now & You Are Not Alone, which deal with deeply personal issues, as opposed to the sneering at people Don despises in Frail Grasp & Business As Usual (I exempt the title track from this because I believe it to be an absolute masterpiece).

It does seem to me that most people on this board prefer the Don they hear in Waiting In The Weeds where he's more reflective & elegiac, instead of the songs where he sounds angry. For me, I like WITW but I don't think it's as great as most people here do. There is something lacking in it which I can't put my finger on. Maybe it's the ferris wheel verse which is my least favourite part of the song; I think he's trying to be too 'clever' there. He's trying to be clever with all the references in the last verse as well, but those work.

In any case it's nice to see some praise of Glenn for his love songs instead of the usual unfair comparisons with Don the Great Lyricist.

[chaim]

The brother comparison wasn't intented to refer to quality. I can't say who's better. I was thinking of attitudes. I love both Glenn and Don (Glenn a bit more, of course), but when I listen to the album, Don sounds like a young guy (little brother) who thinks he can make the world better by bashing everything. And Glenn sounds like an older guy (big brother) who cares about the world as much as his little brother ("Be part of something good. Leave something good behind"), but knows that expressing anger and bashing doesn't necessarily help. So he sounds calmer and more mature. Or something like that.

Now, I think it's ok when Don sings "we" ("We keep makin' the same mistakes over and over and over and over again"). While I get the point in "They think they know it all. They don't know much of nothing", I'm not a huge fan of lyrics that bash them or you ("You don't have the slightest notion what long-term love is all about"). Although I find the "eternal questions like...." bit very funny and essentially very true. I just don't like the "you" bit.

And, yes, I believe that lyrics like "You're not alone" can be more effective. Lyrics like "never thought I'd see you smile again" or "...that I will always be your friend" don't take much background research, but they say a lot. That's what gives you strentgh IMO - that you know you're not alone - not the fact that someone tells you your local newspaper lies. I think both things are good actually, but if it was just "everything is so bad", it would be very dull.

Having said that, I don't mind Don's rants in small doses, and musically I like them like I said, but IMO it could be torture without the songs I've mentioned or Glenn's instrumental.

Incidentally, I also feel that Gene Simmons is the big brother and Paul Stanley the little brother, but for totally different reasons!

[Funk 50]

I initially loved Long Road Out Of Eden but, seven years on, I very rarely wish to listen to it.

Joe's guitar solo is magnificant but to hear it, I'd have to endure the lengthy opening that takes me to a place I don't really want to go, listen to those lyrics that are quite unpleasant to hear and then hang around for the conclusion that takes a whole lot longer thaty it should to arrive.

I'm sure, as they were recording it, they saw it as their great new masterpiece but I don't think they should have released it before they'd ironed out the flaws. They played around with the title, they added the eastern music, they changed the tempo, had part 1 and part 2 but it still promises much, much more than it delivers.

Witnessing Henley's progression as a lyric writer, particularly after he lost Glenn as a co-writer you can see how what he wants to say has gradually become more important than how palitable it becomes for the listener. Maybe 20 years earlier Glenn would've encouraged, pursauded or demanded that Don smoothed all those impenetrable references and unpleasant, cutting barbs to make the song more pleasant to listen to.

The easy to listen to Frey tracks are, on the whole, my favourite LROOE tracks and have been for quite some time

[UndertheWire]

Not sure if I'll agree with myself tomorrow. We'll see...

I love that line.

I don't dislike the LROOE title track but I tend to skip it because it's so long and I want to get on to Somebody.

My biggest problem with the rants is that Don's voice sounds quite unpleasant when he's telling me off. I'd like to hear Don and Glenn swap songs as the love songs might benefit with a little of Don's edge and the rants by having the edges smoothed a little.

Do Something is a song where I prefer Timothy's verses over Don's chorus. With Tim, it's more of a gentle encourage whereas Don makes me feel guilty.

[thelastresort]

I love the lyrics to LROOE. Like I say with The Last Resort, it's a bit uncomfortable and very provocative to listen to, but Henley does have a point and his ability with words is one of the best in music. My favourite lines from the song are:

'Captains of the old order clinging to the reins, assuring us these aches inside are only growing pains'
'I've been down the road to Damascus, the road to Mandalay; met the ghost of Caesar on the Appian Way. He said it's hard to stop this binging, once you get a taste, but the road to empire is a bloody stupid waste'

I could sit down for the rest of my life and still not come up with something as gifted as that lyrically.

[chaim]

I love the lyrics to LROOE. Like I say with The Last Resort, it's a bit uncomfortable and very provocative to listen to, but Henley does have a point and his ability with words is one of the best in music. My favourite lines from the song are:

'Captains of the old order clinging to the reins, assuring us these aches inside are only growing pains'
'I've been down the road to Damascus, the road to Mandalay; met the ghost of Caesar on the Appian Way. He said it's hard to stop this binging, once you get a taste, but the road to empire is a bloody stupid waste'

I could sit down for the rest of my life and still not come up with something as gifted as that lyrically.

Yeah, it's a well-written lyric, and I like it. But overall I feel there's too much negativity from Don on this album, sung in an angry, condescending way. Freypower, of course, will be delighted to hear that Glenn harmonizing with Don on those "captains of the old order" etc. bits is spine-tingling to me.

[chaim]

By the way, does anyone know who wrote what in this song? I remember Glenn saying something about him and Don starting it and Don and Steuart building it into this masterpiece later. Or was it Glenn being modest again? Steuart's name isn't in the credits. On the other hand, what did Timothy contribute to the writing?

[VAisForEagleLovers]

... He said it's hard to stop this binging, once you get a taste, but the road to empire is a bloody stupid waste'

I could sit down for the rest of my life and still not come up with something as gifted as that lyrically.

So understated, but the use of the word 'bloody' here is genius. The British meaning and the literal meaning are both meant here.

My favorite lines are the first few:

Moon shining down through the palms
Shadows moving on the sand
Somebody whispering the twenty-third psalm
Dusty rifle in his trembling hands

Somebody trying just to stay alive
He got promises to keep
Over the ocean in america
Far away and fast asleep

I now work with many people who fought in both wars in Iraq, and some in Afghanistan, and I have to say, it adds a very different perspective for me compared to when this song first came out. Every time I listen to the song now, I envision some of these guys sitting somewhere with a rifle in hand and scared to death and I always wonder what they were thinking, how they felt.

[Freypower]

The brother comparison wasn't intented to refer to quality. I can't say who's better. I was thinking of attitudes. I love both Glenn and Don (Glenn a bit more, of course), but when I listen to the album, Don sounds like a young guy (little brother) who thinks he can make the world better by bashing everything. And Glenn sounds like an older guy (big brother) who cares about the world as much as his little brother ("Be part of something good. Leave something good behind"), but knows that expressing anger and bashing doesn't necessarily help. So he sounds calmer and more mature. Or something like that.

Now, I think it's ok when Don sings "we" ("We keep makin' the same mistakes over and over and over and over again"). While I get the point in "They think they know it all. They don't know much of nothing", I'm not a huge fan of lyrics that bash them or you ("You don't have the slightest notion what long-term love is all about"). Although I find the "eternal questions like...." bit very funny and essentially very true. I just don't like the "you" bit.

And, yes, I believe that lyrics like "You're not alone" can be more effective. Lyrics like "never thought I'd see you smile again" or "...that I will always be your friend" don't take much background research, but they say a lot. That's what gives you strentgh IMO - that you know you're not alone - not the fact that someone tells you your local newspaper lies. I think both things are good actually, but if it was just "everything is so bad", it would be very dull.

Having said that, I don't mind Don's rants in small doses, and musically I like them like I said, but IMO it could be torture without the songs I've mentioned or Glenn's instrumental.

Incidentally, I also feel that Gene Simmons is the big brother and Paul Stanley the little brother, but for totally different reasons!

That's OK chaim; I knew what you meant.

[Freypower]

I don't know how to quote multiple posts & respond to everyone so I will do it like this:

To VA, I think the use of 'bloody' here is a masterstroke. I grew up with the word as it's used here & in the UK & so I'm used to it.

To Funk50 Glenn co-wrote the song Long Road Out Of Eden & as has been said before, it shouldn't be automatically assumed that he had no hand in the lyrics. The fact that he's doing those wonderful backing vocals (thanks chaim; I am indeed delighted that you agree with me on that) would tend to indicate that he may have had some hand in the lyrics. You say that years earlier he may have insisted that some of the lyrics be made more palatable. If he didn't do it with The Last Resort why would he do it with LROOE?

To chaim again perhaps Steuart helped with the arrangement but he's not listed in the credits as you say. I don't know about Tim's credit. Surely it can't just be for that little flourish of bass at the end.

UTW for what it's worth I agree with you about Do Something. As wilth good old Teenage Jail, I really don't know why it was so necessary for Don to sing part of it.

I think the song is brilliant & I think it's a shame that some people dislike the Middle Eastern section, given what the song is about. I just wish I had more information about who plays what on it. In HOTE Glenn says that he went to the electric piano & Don went to the drums.... I very much doubt that Don played drums on this song & if Glenn played electric piano he didn't do so live. You can hear him playing acoustic.