Eagles and Band Leadership

[chaim]

The only thing that could make me think of WITW as a Henley single is the absence of "Frey" in the credits. I have no idea in what way it sounds like a Henley solo track, but I admit I haven't heard every solo album he has done.

[Funk 50]

I think the arrival of Joe Walsh had a huge effect on Hotel California. Joe already had a very close relationship with producer Bill Szymczyk and I'm sure both Glenn and Don felt obliged to allow Joe room to shine.

On Long Road Out Of Eden there's a disappointing amount of Joe. I haven't studied it but there could be more Smith than Walsh on it. There are many fine songs on it and I like it very much but it does lack something that was definitely there in the 70s, even before Felder joined. Lack of co-operation could certainly come into it but I presume it's lost youthful exuberance, aspiration and boundless confidence in their own ability, rather than inner band politics. Becoming seasoned veterans never seems to be a good move for a band.

I'm pretty sure the remaining Eagles could make a (single) album as good as Long Road Out Of Eden, if they have the motivation.


Back on topic, here's a little nugget I've stumbled upon;

Frey, now with the Eagles, made his triumphant return to David Geffen’s office without even a demo tape. As the group’s father figure/leader in its first year, Bernie did all the talking. “Geffen had no idea what we sounded like,” Henley recounts. “And here comes Bernie walking in saying, ‘Okay, here we are. Do you want us or not.’ It was a great moment. Geffen kinda said, ‘Well…yeah.’

http://www.theuncool.com/journalism/rs196-the-eagles/

[Delilah]

The only thing that could make me think of WITW as a Henley single is the absence of "Frey" in the credits. I have no idea in what way it sounds like a Henley solo track, but I admit I haven't heard every solo album he has done.

I don't hear Glenn or Joe when I listen to WITW. I'm not saying they are not there; I just don't hear them. I definitely hear Timothy. The song would fit perfectly on a Don Henley solo album; it has a feel like "The End of the Innocence." There's no cynicism about females in the lyrics (except maybe "what a mess you're making"), no Eagles harmony, no Eagles-like guitar sound, at least to me. It's hard for me to describe the Eagles vibe that makes an Eagles song. I have the same impression about "You Are Not Alone" which is my favorite Glenn vocal lead on the album; to me that is all Glenn. Contrast the title track which does sound more like Eagles.

Had there been a studio album between The Long Run and LROOE to bridge the gap in sound, maybe my opinion would be different.

Back on topic, here's a little nugget I've stumbled upon;


http://www.theuncool.com/journalism/rs196-the-eagles/

Given this was written by Cameron Crowe, I find his quote very interesting (and credible).

[New Kid In Town]

Delilah - Thank You for posting that. That article is in the RS special issue I have. I think one of the amazing things regarding Glenn being the group leader/co-leader was how young he was. In August 1971, when the Eagles formed, Glenn was only 22(he would be 23 in Nov.). Amazing how driven he was for someone so young. I remember reading in a article here in I think "Glenn and the Press" or "Eagles and the Press", and Glenn stated what a toll it took on him. He stated he lived the Eagles 24/7 for nine years, and was sick, exhausted and emotionally drained when he left the band. He also stated he would never do that again.
In the book "The Eagles - Flying High" by Laura Jackson there is a quote from Glenn regarding the toll it took on him.
Page187 - "The whole time the Eagles were together I can count the number of two week vacations I had on one hand, and all of those weren't holidaying, so much as hospitalizing myself on a beach".
She also states: "In Glenn's case it was clear that walking away was an act of self preservation. After the brawl in 1980(with Don F.) he headed to his home in Kauai desperately trying to heal in idyllic surroundings".

I would guess it would probably be safe to say that by the time the Eagles split in 1980, it had taken it's toll on everyone except maybe Timothy.

[groupie2686]

On Long Road Out Of Eden there's a disappointing amount of Joe. I haven't studied it but there could be more Smith than Walsh on it. There are many fine songs on it and I like it very much but it does lack something that was definitely there in the 70s, even before Felder joined. Lack of co-operation could certainly come into it but I presume it's lost youthful exuberance, aspiration and boundless confidence in their own ability, rather than inner band politics. Becoming seasoned veterans never seems to be a good move for a band.

Of course they LROOE lost it's "youthful exuberance" when compared to their earlier albums...they were no longer youthful themselves.

Back to the band leadership question, it seems clear to me that Glenn was the leader of the band. He may have consulted Henley about a lot of things and Henley had more and more input as the 70s went on, but it seems like Glenn had the final say. Henley has made several comments suggesting that he did not agree with decisions that were made in later years- he thought LROOE should have been a single album, he didn't want to do the documentary, etc. Plus, it was Glenn who did all the hiring and firing of band members. There are numerous interviews, including the documentary, where Glenn referred to himself as the leader of the band.

In terms of who had more input on the albums, how would we know that? I find it hard to believe that a track would have made it on LROOE (or any other album) without Glenn having a hand it in it somehow, even if he didn't have songwriting credit - even if it was just arranging the harmonies or something.

[Freypower]

I don't hear Glenn or Joe when I listen to WITW. I'm not saying they are not there; I just don't hear them. I definitely hear Timothy. The song would fit perfectly on a Don Henley solo album; it has a feel like "The End of the Innocence." There's no cynicism about females in the lyrics (except maybe "what a mess you're making"), no Eagles harmony, no Eagles-like guitar sound, at least to me. It's hard for me to describe the Eagles vibe that makes an Eagles song. I have the same impression about "You Are Not Alone" which is my favorite Glenn vocal lead on the album; to me that is all Glenn. Contrast the title track which does sound more like Eagles.

Had there been a studio album between The Long Run and LROOE to bridge the gap in sound, maybe my opinion would be different.



Given this was written by Cameron Crowe, I find his quote very interesting (and credible).

This song is FULL of Eagles harmony. I don't know about Joe, but Glenn can clearly be heard singing the low part. He is particularly audible in the final chorus and in the line 'the seasons are slowly changing you'.

I agree that Joe is underused on LROOE. If the Renmants were to make an album does it need to be pointed out, that without Glenn Frey, it would be even less of an 'Eagles' album. Well, yes, I guess it does.

I already made the comment about Bernie's pitch to Geffen. That was on one occasion. I notice F50 didn't quote this part:

I get so caught up in all this-the pressures of being Glenn Frey of the Eagles, the guy who talks a lot-that if Randy or Bernie needed some confidence building, I might be too self-involved to realize it. I worry about that. But even though there’s a keg of dynamite that’s always sitting there, this band is fairly together.”

[Dawn]

Why Glenn Frey was the True Leader of the Eagles

http://www.vulture.com/2016/01/glenn...he-eagles.html

[GlennLover]

This song is FULL of Eagles harmony. I don't know about Joe, but Glenn can clearly be heard singing the low part. He is particularly audible in the final chorus and in the line 'the seasons are slowly changing you'.

I agree, FP. of any song on the album I think that is one that really has their sound, harmony-wise. (I know that's not a word.) The harmony on this song is beautiful.

[UndertheWire]

I've found the link to the Uncut article. WHat I like about it is that it has Bernie, Glyn Johns, Ron Stone (early manager) and Jackson Browne commenting on the changing leadership dynamic through the first three albums. (And yes, there's an unflattering comment from Glyn Johns about Glenn which shouldn't be ignored).

http://www.uncut.co.uk/features/eagl...g-outlaws-8613

“When we got together we defined our business plan: we wanted to be successful, world famous, acclaimed and rich,” says Leadon. “One of the first things Frey said was, ‘OK, let’s keep this simple. No Christmas cards.’ Did we go on holiday and call each other? No.”

“There was all this success and then – whammo – we were due back in the studio,” says Leadon. “Frey said at the time, ‘We’ve had the hits, now what we want is critical acceptance as serious artists. We’ll do that with this album.’”

Nevertheless, changes were taking place in the band dynamic. Having worked with them mere months before on their debut, and as a producer who was firmly committed to the Eagles being an equilibrium where “no-one feels left out and is fairly represented”, Johns noticed a clear shift in the power base. “Henley and Frey assumed control during Desperado, is the best way of putting it,” he says. “That feeling was always there, but stronger on the second LP.”

On Desperado, the pair had a hand in writing eight of the 10 originals, and shared writing credits on the two most high- profile tracks – “Tequila Sunrise” and “Desperado”. It was the start of the Eagles’ musical output beginning to reflect both the band hierarchy and also the manner in which it had been formed in the first place. “There was a degree of prefabrication to the Eagles,” says Stone. “We put them all together, with Glenn and Don as the centrepieces, but they wanted it to be a real, organic band. That’s the emotional component of the first two records: to be a proper band, almost playing at being a democracy. What they realised as time went on is that rock’n’roll is a benevolent dictatorship.”

Leadon, perhaps surprisingly, agrees: “They were more suited to lead. It was actually Glyn’s idea to make it more of a four-way thing. The natural dynamic was more like a Beatles vibe, with two main guys, but Glyn pushed hard to make sure Randy and I had two songs each on Desperado, and it worked out OK.” While both Leadon and Stone believe the friction and creative tension was a positive force initially, it quickly became a problem. Shortly into the recording of their third record, On The Border, they sacked Johns. “We fell out, really,” he says. “Henley and Frey treated the others like inferior beings – particularly Frey. I didn’t like what I was seeing at all and I made that fairly obvious.” Don Felder came in on extra guitar and the sound toughened. Not much later Leadon left, then Meisner. “Democracy does not serve the creative impulse well,” shrugs Browne. “In the end, Don and Glenn just took over the band.”

[Delilah]

Thanks for those links and quotes, Dawn and UndertheWire. Interesting how the two articles present different perspectives.