Donald J Trump/ Governor Mike Pence
Secratary Hillary Rodham Clinton/ Senator Tim Kaine
Undecided
We are screwed no matter what.
Governor Gary Johnson/ Governor William Weld
Dr. Jill Stein/Unknown VP canidate
Re: US Election 2016 Poll and Disscusion
Blair and Cameron make the top three? One should be in jail (or hanged, I don't mind either) for war crimes and the other will forever go down in history as the bloke who made a right mess of it (and that's from a Leave voter!). Whilst half of those on the list aren't desirable and the other half are a lot worse, I genuinely can't see why Reagan or even Obama (as much as it pains me to type that) are worse than either of the British two.Originally Posted by WS82Classics
Re: US Election 2016 Poll and Disscusion
Regan was a great president.
Re: US Election 2016 Poll and Disscusion
Worst To best
Kim Jong Un
King George 3
Gengahs Kahn
Hillary Clinton
Hassan Rouhani
Gorbachev
Putin
Barack Obama
Trump
David Cameron
Tony Blair
Theresa May
Ronald Regan
Re: US Election 2016 Poll and Disscusion
Glenn certainly didn't think so.
Re: US Election 2016 Poll and Disscusion
Not to mention every celebrity in Hollywood.
If they were asked to forgo all their money and lavish lifestyle they would not do it,
Re: US Election 2016 Poll and Disscusion
Sorry that I didn't exactly rank these people. I honestly can't.
I didn't know who Rouhani was until I Googled him, but I would put him above Obama for tricking him into doing that Iran nuclear deal, which I thought was rubbish. I don't know a whole lot on that deal, but if the basic premise was to allow Iran to have nuclear production of some sort, then that's foolish. They've got oil, so they don't need nuclear energy. I don't trust them in not making nuclear weapons. You can correct me on this topic, though. I don't mind, but I'd like to hear from both the conservatives and liberals on this board. British and other foreign opinions are welcome too, since I think the aforementioned terms may have slightly different definitions.
I'd say that the worst is definitely Kim Jong-Un for just how ridiculous North Korea is. From the nuclear program to how backwards and not up-to-date things are over there, he's the worst.
I can't comment on British PMs, since I don't know enough of what's going on over there. All I have to say is, good luck on leaving. Hope things turn out. Hope it's not too unstable. After a while, things should be alright. I mean, hopefully Britain can come up w/ some labor and other trade agreements to try to salvage what the EU had in terms of free trade.
King George III was just terrible at handling the American colonies. He got too greedy with the taxes and just treating the colonists as equal Englishmen. I don't know how he handled things in England though.
Gorbachev was alright and he was at least a reasonable Soviet. I don't know what Putin's been doing other than trying to recreate the USSR.
I could care less about Trump and Hillary. I don't like either of them, and I'm only possibly voting for the former just for the Supreme Court seats. If Scalia hadn't died, then I wouldn't care about who fills it. Like if a liberal judge had passed, I wouldn't care if the Dems picked what they want.
In the future, I think Obama will go down in history as ineffective as Jimmy Carter. Poor foreign policy decisions and left a country more divided than ever. He's the great divider, not uniter. I don't remember having as many shootings and racial tensions during the W. Bush era, even during Katrina. At least Bush was more gracious when he handled tragedy. 9 times out of 10, Obama just politicizes whatever he touches to further his own agenda. His remarks at the Dallas police funeral were in bad taste, IMO. I mean, he doesn't need to say anything political at a memorial service. Do the families of those cops really want to hear that? Probably not. He shifted his party to the left even more, and it brought up the rise of the Tea Party movement. Say what you want about what he did to "recover" the economy, but we're at 2% GDP growth. My history prof last week said that we were at like 5% during Reagan and Kennedy.
I know I'm biased, but my favorite was Reagan. He helped the economy out of stagflation, even though it took a few years. He took it out of the Keynesian death spiral of more gov't spending which equaled more inflation and more unemployment during the Ford and Carter years. Keynesian economics doesn't solve unemployment and inflation at the same time, but it solves one or the other. Reagan's advisers told him that using classical or supply-side econ could fix it. He made Carter look like a chump. I know Reagan had faults in foreign policy, but it turned out alright as he learned from mistakes. I wish I could do Reagan's profile more justice, but this is just stuff that's coming from the top of my head. I recommend CNN's The Eighties for more info on him.
I'm open to hear why exactly Henley and Frey don't like Reagan. Like, what makes Reagan and HW Bush chumps compared to Bill Clinton?
Re: US Election 2016 Poll and Disscusion
Both men were/are Liberal Democrats, so I assume they opposed him on standard fare matters of principle(environment, taxes, war, etc). I'm sure a guy like Bernie Leadon has more personal misgivings with America's 40th President, as he had sort of a common-law relationship with Reagan's disowned daughter Patti(with whom he co-wrote "I Wish You Peace").
I personally think Reagan was no better than an average President of the United States. His policies helped bring about the end of the Cold War and his tax cuts did spur economic growth, but the rather incendiary rhetoric he took on in his political career(inciting the "Silent Majority" to launch a bloodbath against the Hippie movement) was a bit much. That said, Conservatives over-hype him to such a dizzying degree that it is hard to take those historical perspectives seriously anymore.
I like Bush 41 a whole lot(Bush 43 not so much), and I think he is probably going to be our last good President for at least 4 more years. Ford was also very under-rated as a President. As to Nixon, I think if one switched out the scripts for one of his speeches, a Dan Quayle speech, and a Donald Trump speech, give each man a different script and put them in front of a camera, it is doubtful that the average observer could tell the difference between the three.
All carrot, no stick.
"He's just another power junkie, just another silk scarf monkey. You'd know it if you saw his stuff. The man just isn't big enough."--Glenn Frey/Don Henley
"You think you know me, but you haven't got a clue."--John Lennon/Paul McCartney
Re: US Election 2016 Poll and Disscusion
I think that people are under-rating Barak Obama. He's far from perfect. While I understand the feelings behind it, I found it macabre that he was watching the attack on Osama Bin Laden's house. However, I think he's done a very good job. It does make a difference that some of his actions are things that I support independently, e.g. socialised medicine for all.
I didn't know much about Hassan Rouhani until recently. However, again I think that while there is much I disagree with, he is doing an interesting job in a difficult environment. He has publically taken on the hard-liners in his government (compare to Obama) and has said many interesting things. E.g. "Our first duty is to respect people's dignity and personality. God has bestowed dignity to all human beings and this dignity precedes religion." This was being critical of Iran's morality police. I can't find the quote where he says that the morality police shouldn't be interfering in people's lives. I've been studying Iran a bit recently as I'm going to do a long foreign trip, and want to break it on the Asian continent. One thing that surprised me is how liberal and pro-Western the youth, in particular, of Iran are. If there are disputes between the countries, it appears to be at government level, not at the level of the peoples. It's an hour long, but I found this revealing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYoa9hI3CXg As the generations change in Iran, what will happen when there is an increasingly liberal (and secular) populace ruled by a theocracy? History does not suggest that things will change smoothly.
If the US government was made of Obama clones, it would in my political view be much improved. There might be more gun laws etc. Similarly an Iranian government made of Rouhani clones without the hard-liners would in my opinion be much improved. In both cases, however, I don't know huge amounts about them and it's possible that I could learn things considerably not to my liking.
However, things can get worse. Trump could win in the US and hard-liners seem to be making political gains in Iran. If both come to be, who knows what could happen.
As far as Iran and nuclear weapons go, they have hundreds of nuclear weapons pointed at them. I would much, much, prefer that the solution would be to find a way for Iran to NOT have nuclear weapons and for there to be no such weapons pointed at them (or exist in the world at all.) I'm not so innocent that I believe that this can easily happen.
For the UK, Theresa May actually appears to be a skilled leader, better in that way than several recent politicians. However, the problem is that her politics differ greatly from mine, and she appears to be effectively putting things into action that I disagree with. Seasoned with things I fully support, e.g. the potential pardon for those convicted of same-sex love when that was illegal (e.g. Alan Turing) which I am fully behind.
One thing I don't know: previously I thought Clinton was reasonable. Her husband was a relatively good president in some ways. I don't know how much of the mud thrown at her is BS, and how much is honest. Bernie Saunders is much more my sort of person, but that isn't going to happen.
Re: US Election 2016 Poll and Disscusion
I just rewatched some of the Spitting Image Reagan sketches. I'm not sure to what extent they influenced (the british) public opinion of Reagan about much they were just reflecting what was already out there. I remember being somewhat scared that that kind of man could become american President and worrying that he could start a nuclear war. Alongside this, there was a perception that he was a puppet with good speaking skills but small intellect and going senile. Alongside this, was concern about his VP with one of the jokes running along the lines of "What are the scariest words in the english language?" "Dan, I don't feel well."
By the end of the decade, the Berlin Wall had come down and the Cold War was over. Ray-gun and Gorby seemed to be getting on fine.
Of course, it turns out that Reagan probably was suffering from a certain degree of dementia in the later years of his presidency. That has to be a concern with both Clinton and Trump.
Re: US Election 2016 Poll and Disscusion
Here's hoping tonight's Presidential debate yields something sensible in the way of results.
All carrot, no stick.
"He's just another power junkie, just another silk scarf monkey. You'd know it if you saw his stuff. The man just isn't big enough."--Glenn Frey/Don Henley
"You think you know me, but you haven't got a clue."--John Lennon/Paul McCartney
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