Songwriting Techniques

[VAisForEagleLovers]

http://blog.sonicbids.com/5-lyrical-...an-ruin-a-song

Since so many of our favorite bands and artists are also exceptional songwriters, I thought this might be a good topic. Especially since our Eagles are considered some of the best of the best. This link gives ideas on what not to do when writing a song.

Everyone please feel free to add your own thoughts.

[sodascouts]

Several of these are good for creative writing, too. I'm often telling my students that vivid language and creative metaphors will often lift a work a great deal, while cliches and boring, generic adjectives will do the opposite.

[NightMistBlue]

It's not that I necessarily disagree with any of those points, but as I was reading I immediately thought of great songs that break those rules.

Miracles by Jefferson Starship violates #5 (Marty Balin sings "baby" over 25 times); Old Days by Chicago is chock full o' nostalgic scenarios; and Nilsson's Without You breaks rule #1 big-time.

[AlreadyGone95]

I don't know much about songwriting or writing in general, so I can't much about it. I truthfully think that there's no one way to a write a song (or write anything fof that matter). Each song is different. I think that it depends on the subject matter and the intended audience. (12/13 y/o girls don't care if the word "baby" is half of a song).

I believe that it was Glenn Frey who said to "paint a picture". (I think that I remember reading him saying that in the thread of the NYU session he did). That's one rule that I do agree with. Even today, where there's music videos galore, I think that rule is just as important as it was 40 years ago.

[NightMistBlue]

Glenn's advice to "show don't tell" is typically given in creative writing classes (it was in mine, anyway) for people writing prose and poetry. Henley recommends this too. Clearly, they practice what they preach in terms of the Eagles' story-songs, like Lyin' Eyes and Life in the Fast Lane. At the NYU seminar, Glenn said something like, "Don't tell me how you feel" [I made up a Word document of all his remarks that our kindly Border members in attendance shared but I don't have it handy at the moment], but I think the confessional/lay-all-your-feelings-out type of songwriting can be effective too. Shoot, he's the expert though.

[AlreadyGone95]

I also want to say that I disagree with the old adage "if it works, run it into the ground". Writing the same kind of song over and over just because it works is sort of like selling out to me.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

I suppose that if a song is strong enough in other areas, one of the 'rules' can broken, or at least bent, and still be a good song.

[chaim]

If you take that list and go through Neil Young's discography, you'll notice that Young is a bad writer. And not many people seem to think that he is.
And if you do something that is not a cliche, most experts are going to say it sucks anyway.

[Jonny Come Lately]

Interesting point. I'm now trying to think about Neil Young songs that break these rules.

Rule #1 (Over the top sentimentality) - Some of the softer songs on After The Gold Rush, perhaps fit this - I Believe In You perhaps best fits in this category, maybe Birds as well. A few of the songs from his lighter acoustic country albums, especially Comes A Time and Harvest Moon, break this rule too.
Rule #2 (Trying too hard) - Arguably Piece Of Crap could be seen as trying to hard to fit in with grunge music. It doesn't really fit the dark atmosphere of most of the rest of the Sleeps With Angels album.
Rule #3 (Nostalgia) - Days That Used To Be can be identified as one of these by its title alone, although it isn't really a sentimental song so in a way it kind of inverts this one. From Hank To Hendrix, however, does break this rule.
Rule #4 (Cliché phrases) - Neil is actually pretty good at avoiding this one on the whole I think, certainly compared to the rules about nostalgia and sentimentality. Only Love Can Break Your Heart perhaps stands out as one that does break this rule. One or two cliché phrases in a song are fine IMO, it's only a problem when they start dominating the lyrics that they become a problem. T-Bone arguably should go in this category but the repeated lyrics about mashed potatoes and the eponymous steak aren't really clichés so it manages to avert this.
Rule #5 (Too heavy a reliance on non-words) - There's a few Neil songs which are guilty as charged that readily spring to my mind. Even the mighty Down By The River (la, la, la...) falls into this trap, as do Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere and I Believe In You.

The funny thing is I really like almost all of these songs and don't generally consider their lyrics to be a weak point in any way...

Then again, I think part of what makes Neil Young great as a songwriter (I certainly do not consider him a bad songwriter. No way! But then again I am a big fan) is how he can break the rules and get away with it. Just listen to the famous Cinnamon Girl guitar solo for proof

[NightMistBlue]

Neil has done entire albums that broke rule #2 about following trends: Trans and Everybody's Rockin'.