Still the Same - Bob Seger

[Ive always been a dreamer]

When Soda posted her slide show tribute to Glenn to the song Still the Same, it got me thinking a lot about the song. Some of this discussion already came up in the YouTube thread , but I thought I'd start a separate topic. First of all, I've heard for a long time that the song was allegedly written about Glenn, but I don't remember where I heard this from. Can anyone help me out here?

It sure does sound a lot like Glenn to me, which brings me to my second question. What do you all think of the lyrics? They are very ambiguous to me as to whether they are meant in a positive way, a negative way, or both. I remember back in the day when the song first came out thinking that it was very harsh. But I can definitely see it both ways. For instance, the lyrics...

"There you stood,
everybody watched you play.
I just turned and walked away.
I had nothing left to say."

I originally viewed this as pretty negative, but I can also see where Seger may have been looking at Glenn in somewhat in awe of him. When they first met, Bob, being several years older, was a mentor to Glenn. However, I've read that after the Eagles success, there was actually a role reversal here, and Glenn became more of the mentor. I can see where Bob could have either been jealous of Glenn's success or in awe of him. And again, maybe there was a little of both.

[sodascouts]

Maybe it was kind of a "I have nothing more to teach you" attitude?

It was FreyPower who told me about Seger writing the song about Glenn.

[EasyFeeling]

Maybe it was kind of a "I have nothing more to teach you" attitude?

It was FreyPower who told me about Seger writing the song about Glenn.

My first thought, too.

[Brooke]

Yeah, I can see where you could take it either way. Glenn wound up having a much more successful career than Bob. And Bob is certainly no slouch! I wonder if they are still friends today?

[Glennsallnighter]

I agree with Soda, that initially as Glenn 's mentor Bob would have taught him a lot but that there came a time when Bob could advise him no more! ie he had done all he could for him and Glenn was ready to face the world on his own two feet.
" I had nothing left to say "
ie I had given him all the advice I could!

Oh to have been around in those heady exciting days

[Freypower]

I have been listening to Still The Same since 1978 when I bought Stranger In Town. Once I had found out about Bob & Glenn's history, I thought 'this has to be about Glenn'. Seger was using the 'ramblin' gamblin' man' imagery from his own song for which Glenn sang backup, and also the Eagles' Desperado. Although the song is ostensibly about a gambler, Glenn the rock musician has always taken risks in what he does. The force of his personality has helped him get where he is ('turning on the charm/just enough to get you by)'.

I posted on another board that I thought the song was about Glenn. Someone who had met Glenn in the early 70s agreed with me. I have had no reason to change my opinion.

As far as I know the two of them are still friends. When Seger's last album Face The Promise was released he talked warmly about both Glenn and Don. My dearest wish is to hear the two of them sing together again.

[sodascouts]

Well, here are the lyrics:

You always won, every time you placed a bet
You're still damn good, no one's gotten to you yet
Every time they were sure they had you caught
You were quicker than they thought
You'd just turn your back and walk

You always said, the cards would never do you wrong
The trick you said was never play the game too long
A gambler's share, the only risk that you would take
The only loss you could forsake
The only bluff you couldn't fake

And you're still the same
I caught up with you yesterday
Moving game to game
No one standing in your way
Turning on the charm
Long enough to get you by
You're still the same
You still aim high

There you stood, everybody watched you play
I just turned and walked away
I had nothing left to say

'Cause you're still the same
You're still the same
Moving game to game
Some thlngs never change
You're still the same

---------------------------------

Well, I've given it some thought... it's time for some good old-fashioned Nancy lyric explication, lol.
(Note: this is all speculation based on my own interpretation, and I claim no definite knowledge here)

The song seems like it's conflicted between praise and censure. It presents a portrait of a guy who takes risks and always comes out on top, but has no sense of permanence and is unable to emotionally commit. He's always walking away and moving from game to game, always unsatisfied.

I interpret "the gambler's share, the only risk that you would take" as being that he was unable to put his heart on the line and instead kept up a wall between himself and other people, never letting anyone get too close to him. Ironically, despite the fact that he takes so many professional risks, he's unwilling to take personal ones.

Even the compliment about charm is somewhat back-handed, as "Turning on the charm" implies insincerity and an attempt to manipulate and "play" people. It implies caring more about projecting a "persona" in order to get what you want rather than revealing the "real you." That's the whole thing about bluffing, too - fooling people, pretending you're something you're not, pretending you feel things you don't, being "fake" - anything it takes in order to come out ahead... and it works. He's got everyone eating out of the palm of his hand, but at what cost? When the "real" self is continuously shoved down and hidden, it has to wear on the guy, and it also implies that the guy thinks his "real" self isn't good enough on its own. That can't feel very good.

And all this time, the guy is telling himself that what really counts is that he's always in control, he's got everyone doing what he wants, he's the master of the game - "no one standing in your way." He can't see that sometimes one needs to surrender control and let oneself be vulnerable once in a while in order to find happiness. When you let yourself love a person fully, you are giving that person a degree of control because you can't stop them if they decide to break your heart. You put yourself in a position where someone else has the power to hurt you. On the other hand, you can't find true love without giving up that control and allowing someone that power over you. Right now this guy is unable to do that. It extends even to friendships. He can't let himself truly open up to anyone. If people start getting too close too him to the point where they "think they have him caught" he quickly "turns his back and walks." In his mind, close relationships are a trap inviting pain; there's always that possibility of eventual rejection and the only way to make that possibility go away is to cut the person off before they have a chance to do so - "never play the game too long."

As we've already said, the fact that the narrator "has nothing left to say" can be interpreted both positively and negatively, and I think that might be deliberate - again, part praise, part criticism.

On the other hand, the narrator's admiration for the guy's talent, drive, ambition, and consequent success is there as well. It wasn't just luck - like a gambler, there's luck involved, but there's also skill, brains, and daring involved, and Glenn had those in spades (pardon the pun).

And, finally, the whole basis of the song - "you're still the same" - I can see that as "You're still a winner in many ways, but you haven't grown personally."

And yet I don't think Seger was bitter that he was surpassed success-wise by his protege. Remember that this was the height of Glenn's fame in the midst of the Hotel California craziness, and even the album itself thematically expresses the "success without satisfaction" theme that Seger is talking about here.

Of course, nowadays, that seems to have changed and Glenn seems able to balance the professional and the personal, just judging from the way he's talked in interviews about family being more important than how many records you sell and that kind of thing. In fact, since he's not "still the same" in that sense, I actually hesitated to use the song in the montage. Dreamer convinced me that was silly and I should use it for its positive connotations.

[Brooke]

Thanks, Soda. That was excellent! I really enjoyed your thoughts. I agree with most all of them and I, too, think that Glenn isn't still the same. He's grown up and taken on responsibilities.

Edited to add: LOVE your new av!

[Ive always been a dreamer]

I agree with a lot of what Soda said, as well. I think the song is complex, just like people are. All those traits that are described in the song can be good or bad. Although, Glenn has, obviously, grown and matured, I still think a lot of these things do still apply to him though. So, in many ways he's different, but in many ways, he is still the same. I think that's true of almost everyone though. But, that is why I also thought Soda should use pics from his entire life for her slideshow. JMHO

[Glennsallnighter]

Thank you for that insight Soda, you write so well. I think things but find it so hard to write them. and I think its a very good analysis of Glenn through the song.

Oh and I too love that new av