Why I no longer am happy with my favorite band

[Vector]

I am like many of you, having grown up on the Eagles and consider them one of, if not my overall favorite band. I do not need to explain why as most here are probably shaking their heads in agreement.

When they split back in 1980 I was not happy, but beyond being deprived of any new music from them, I didn't really care why they broke up. To me, they were just like many other groups who split for one reason or another. However I always said that if they ever did get back together, even if it was a special one off concert, I'd get tickets and fly almost anywhere to see them.
Of course when they went on tour to promote Hell Freezes Over, I was lucky enough to have them come to Miami, where they were flawless. I got a kick out of how they said "we never broke up, just went on a 14 year vacation". That combined with the name of their CD playing off of Henley's infamous comment, I could not imagine a better way to reunite and put the past behind them.

Based on the aforementioned you may be wondering where I have lost the faith so to speak. The reason is that I have now gotten to know why they broke up, and more about them on an individual basis. I probably would not have cared that much, but like many of you, I've watched "History of the Eagles" on Showtime. I decided to watch it not for their personal back story, but rather hoping to catch some unreleased footage, and maybe some insight on how certain songs/albums came together. After watching both parts, many things did not add up to me, so having it On Demand, I watched it again. All of a sudden I found myself getting annoyed at certain members of the band, and feeling sorry for others.
So even though this documentary was in their own words, and presumably edited with their input, I decided to delve into other sources of information to see if it could help me get my mind around what seemed like glaring inconsistencies.

To that end, I decided to read the following books, but I got them from the library rather than buy them(more on that later);

The Eagles/Vaughan
The Eagles/Jackson
Heaven & Hell/Felder

I intend on reading;

To The Limit/Eliot

But it is on backlog in the public library system. I also watched the 60 Minutes special and read at least a dozen past and present articles about them as a group and individually. I even joined this forum more as a source of research than intending on being an active member.
Keep in mind that I just finished reading all of the above and watching the Doc & 60 Minutes within the last few weeks, so everything is very fresh in my mind.

Finally, before I get to my conclusions/viewpoint and ask for other posters thoughts, let me make an observation and disclosure. My observation about some of the forum members here is that they love a particular member of the Eagles, and are quick to rush to their defense. That of course is typical of a fan who will always see things from a biased perspective. It is no different than a sports fan who always thinks the close calls are in favor of their team.
For me, I never really had a favorite band member, nor a particular member I could relate to more than any other.
Heck, other than Henley & Frey, I did not even know any of the other members names before they broke up in 1980. So I am about as unbiased a source as you can get when it comes to individual members.

Even my favorite songs seem to be evenly split between different vocalists and/or creative members behind the songs.
For example, and in no special order, my top 5 songs by them are as follows;

One Of These Nights/Henley
Take It Easy/Frey
Hotel California/Felder
Take It To The Limit/Meisner

Tequila Sunrise/Frey * Mainly because my son was born to this song

So if I had a positive bias at all, it might be a slight leaning toward Frey because he sings the song my son was born to. {I am just glad it was not to Desperado, as their greatest hits CD was playing on random in the background}

It might therefore come as a surprise to some, that despite Frey being the main guy who formed the original group members, I believe him to be the main reason for their overall problems and dissension.
While the following list is not meant to say he, and he alone is solely responsible, it shows where he is the primary antagonist;

Despite two successful albums and a 3rd in the works, he is the main guy to butt heads with Glyn Johns.

He was the main guy to butt heads with Geffen, and told Azoff to file suit and leave.

He is the main guy to come into conflict with Bernie Leadon, which ultimately led to a confrontation and Leadon leaving the band.

He is the main guy to come into conflict with Randy Meisner, which again led to a confrontation and Meisner leaving the band.

He is the main guy to come into conflict with Don Felder, which once again led to a confrontation, and ultimately led to the dissolution of the band.

When the other members wanted to get beyond the Long Run tour/blowup, Frey was the one who called it quits.

Years later when four of the five Eagles were in the studio to re-unite, it was Frey who left them standing at the alter.

When he finally decided to rejoin the Eagles, it was his demand that he and Henley get more money than the others, thereby sowing the seeds of future discontent.

After they had gotten back together, he once again was the main guy who was involved with the conflict and firing of Don Felder.

Despite all of the above as it pertains to Frey, this alone would not put me off to the overall band. However the power struggles (which include Henley), conflict, hypocrisy, ungratefulness, greed and other unsavory things I've become aware of have decidedly left a bad taste in my mouth.

The last straw for me involves their political leanings, which seems to have been a part of them from the early 1970's. While I imagine many groups of that era voted for and supported Democrats, the Eagles seem to be in a class unto themselves when it comes to liberal kooks. Jerry Brown was and is a left wing loon, and Alan Cranston was about as liberal of a senator as they come.
It is to such a great degree that I do not want to put any more of my hard earned dollars in the Eagles coffers. So rather than me buying any of the aforementioned books, I got them from the library. Had I not been able to watch and record the Doc with my DVR, I would never have paid for it precisely for the same reason.
Now this is of course a free country, and people are free to support and vote for whomever they choose. Yet the Eagles have gone well beyond their individual support and votes for liberals. They did and continue to actively try to use their fame for political causes, thereby undermining those with whom I might politically support.

As an FYI, I am not a hardline right winger, and have voted for both Democrats & Republicans. But it sickens me when the ignorant and naive Hollywood types use the platform they've achieved (because of their artistic abilities) to try and influence the rest of us. This is also true of those who vocally support hardline right wingers, but they are few and far between in the music and acting industry.

I still love to listen to the Eagles older music, as does my son who was raised listening to my CD's. Sadly for me, I was fairly naive as to who they were, what they did, and what they stood for. There is a part of me that wishes I did not get the bug to find out more about them after watching the documentary. After all, entertainers can be an escape from our day to day reality, and should not be taken to seriously.
Yet there is no escaping how hypocritical the two leaders of the Eagles are, along with their beloved manager Irving Azoff. They formed a band with an equal membership in mind because they did not like the feeling of being sidemen themselves.
Yet the greed and hubris caused Frey and to a certain extent Henley to become exactly what they despised in the early days. As a result, the magic the Eagles possessed that made them our beloved band, was the cause of them falling apart and depriving us of that great early combination of talent. We will never know how many other great hits were never to be recorded as a result.

Needless to say, I am interested in your points of view on my lengthy OP.

`

[pueblo47]

I have no problem with your post other than to correct a name: it's Bernie L eadon, not Bernie Felder.

[Annabel]

When I saw it Judy, post one said 'Bernie Leadon, not Bernie Felder' and post two said 'Bernie Leadon not Felder.' Neither said what they say now for sure.

[Annabel]

Erm, my altered post doesn't even make sense now lol. Whatever.

[Henley Honey]

I don't agree with you at all, Vector. The band is a business -- just like a bakery is a business. Just because their "product" strikes a place in your soul rather than your stomach, doesn't mean it isn't first and foremost a business.

Frey & Henley as equal managing partners started the business with a shared vision. Each brought individual strengths and weaknesses to the partnership and between them had sufficient drive and determination to make it happen and reach their goals. If a business is to be successfully maintained or substantially increased, then change is inevitable. If their relationships with Glyn Johns, Geffen, Bernie and Felder were not in the best interest of the business as they saw it, then things needed to be changed.

Felder might have been the greatest guitar player on the planet, but if you are trying to run a successful business and you have an employee whose behavior on a day-to-day basis is derisive and contrary, then things need to be changed.

IMO, Glenn was and continues to be the driving force behind the band. He has fought to maintain his and Henley's original vision. I don't see him as the primary antagonist. I see him as a smart and savvy businessman who has also proved himself as an extraordinary musician, composer and arranger.

As far as their "political leanings" I'm glad that they are not complacent in this area. I'm glad that they are concerned about the world that they and their children live in. If their higher profile gives them greater influence to bring about change and they use that influence when and how they choose, then good for them.

Just my opinion.

[Tiffanny Twisted]

I don't agree with you at all, Vector. The band is a business -- just like a bakery is a business. Just because their "product" strikes a place in your soul rather than your stomach, doesn't mean it isn't first and foremost a business.

Frey & Henley as equal managing partners started the business with a shared vision. Each brought individual strengths and weaknesses to the partnership and between them had sufficient drive and determination to make it happen and reach their goals. If a business is to be successfully maintained or substantially increased, then change is inevitable. If their relationships with Glyn Johns, Geffen, Bernie and Felder were not in the best interest of the business as they saw it, then things needed to be changed.

Felder might have been the greatest guitar player on the planet. But if your are trying to run a successful business and you have an employee whose behavior on a day-to-day basis is derisive and contrary, then things need to be changed.

IMO, Glenn was and continues to be the driving force behind the band. He has fought to maintain his and Henley's original vision. I don't see him as the primary antagonist. I see him as a smart and savvy businessman who has also proved himself as an extraordinary musician, composer and arranger.

As far as their "political leanings" I'm glad that they are not complacent in this area. I'm glad that they are concerned about the world that they and their children live in. If their higher profile gives them greater influence to bring about change and they use that influence when and how they choose, then good for them.

Just my opinion.

very well said hh..i agree

[Vector]

`


Aside from me putting Felder instead of Leadon(or did the programming do that ), there is not much to respond to in the first few replies.


`

I don't agree with you at all, Vector. The band is a business -- just like a bakery is a business. Just because their "product" strikes a place in your soul rather than your stomach, doesn't mean it isn't first and foremost a business.

Frey & Henley as equal managing partners started the business with a shared vision. Each brought individual strengths and weaknesses to the partnership and between them had sufficient drive and determination to make it happen and reach their goals. If a business is to be successfully maintained or substantially increased, then change is inevitable. If their relationships with Glyn Johns, Geffen, Bernie and Felder were not in the best interest of the business as they saw it, then things needed to be changed.

Felder might have been the greatest guitar player on the planet, but if you are trying to run a successful business and you have an employee whose behavior on a day-to-day basis is derisive and contrary, then things need to be changed.

IMO, Glenn was and continues to be the driving force behind the band. He has fought to maintain his and Henley's original vision. I don't see him as the primary antagonist. I see him as a smart and savvy businessman who has also proved himself as an extraordinary musician, composer and arranger.

As far as their "political leanings" I'm glad that they are not complacent in this area. I'm glad that they are concerned about the world that they and their children live in. If their higher profile gives them greater influence to bring about change and they use that influence when and how they choose, then good for them.

Just my opinion.

Hello, and thanks for your opinion.

However I am not sure your reply means you "do not agree at all". Instead it could mean that you agree XYZ happened, but you are ok with it. So in taking the list of examples where I believe Frey was the main antagonist/bully, you might believe every move was for "the good of the Eagles".
The same could be said about their political stance. That would be especially true if you lean in the same direction that they do.

In no way do I believe every move Frey made when it came to Glyn Johns for example, was wrong. Yet he clearly was the primary person who pushed the envelope. In some cases it might have been better for the band, in other cases it clearly was not. I would say his tactics and attitude left a lot to be desired even if he was right about certain things. Another words you can approve of the end result without approving of his methods.

Regardless, I fail to see how someone can be credited with helping to create and be a leader of something, yet also not be taken to task for the eventual unraveling of that very creation.
Taking the Felder situation as an example, it is clear the Eagles had a certain sound and creative mix without him. Yet what Frey and to a certain extent Henley wanted for the band, occurred in no small part because of Felder. Along that same line of reasoning, why insist that he be a full fledged member of the group (i.e. 1/5) when you later decide you do not like the arrangement, and try to change the rules midstream?
Much of Felder's "derisive and contrary behavior" was in fact due to Frey & Henley deciding they were entitled to a larger cut of money, and I guess they expected him to be a lamb about it.
When he wasn't, they interpreted that as him being a problem. The eventual huge settlement tells me that Felder clearly had a legitimate grievance. So his behavior was only "derisive" to those who did not get away with something they were wrong to do.


`

[sad-cafe]

I don't agree with you at all, Vector. The band is a business -- just like a bakery is a business. Just because their "product" strikes a place in your soul rather than your stomach, doesn't mean it isn't first and foremost a business.

Frey & Henley as equal managing partners started the business with a shared vision. Each brought individual strengths and weaknesses to the partnership and between them had sufficient drive and determination to make it happen and reach their goals. If a business is to be successfully maintained or substantially increased, then change is inevitable. If their relationships with Glyn Johns, Geffen, Bernie and Felder were not in the best interest of the business as they saw it, then things needed to be changed.

Felder might have been the greatest guitar player on the planet, but if you are trying to run a successful business and you have an employee whose behavior on a day-to-day basis is derisive and contrary, then things need to be changed.

IMO, Glenn was and continues to be the driving force behind the band. He has fought to maintain his and Henley's original vision. I don't see him as the primary antagonist. I see him as a smart and savvy businessman who has also proved himself as an extraordinary musician, composer and arranger.

As far as their "political leanings" I'm glad that they are not complacent in this area. I'm glad that they are concerned about the world that they and their children live in. If their higher profile gives them greater influence to bring about change and they use that influence when and how they choose, then good for them.

Just my opinion.

Agreed

[Topkat]

I don't agree with you at all, Vector. The band is a business -- just like a bakery is a business. Just because their "product" strikes a place in your soul rather than your stomach, doesn't mean it isn't first and foremost a business.

Frey & Henley as equal managing partners started the business with a shared vision. Each brought individual strengths and weaknesses to the partnership and between them had sufficient drive and determination to make it happen and reach their goals. If a business is to be successfully maintained or substantially increased, then change is inevitable. If their relationships with Glyn Johns, Geffen, Bernie and Felder were not in the best interest of the business as they saw it, then things needed to be changed.

Felder might have been the greatest guitar player on the planet, but if you are trying to run a successful business and you have an employee whose behavior on a day-to-day basis is derisive and contrary, then things need to be changed.

IMO, Glenn was and continues to be the driving force behind the band. He has fought to maintain his and Henley's original vision. I don't see him as the primary antagonist. I see him as a smart and savvy businessman who has also proved himself as an extraordinary musician, composer and arranger.

As far as their "political leanings" I'm glad that they are not complacent in this area. I'm glad that they are concerned about the world that they and their children live in. If their higher profile gives them greater influence to bring about change and they use that influence when and how they choose, then good for them.

Just my opinion.

I will have to disagree with this. As you say, this is a "business", but when they formed this band, there was an "equal partnership" between them. Randy, Don Felder & Bernie were not "Hired Help" here. There were legal contracts drawn up between them, which included financial & decision making in the band, so to say that Frey & Henley were equally managing partners is not really correct.
Their relationships with all of them including Johns, & Geffen contributed hugely to their success. They wouldn't be where they are today if not for the contributions of all of these other people. Once again, the Eagles are a band, not just Frey & Henley.

[Topkat]

Originally Posted by Henley Honey

I don't agree with you at all, Vector. The band is a business -- just like a bakery is a business. Just because their "product" strikes a place in your soul rather than your stomach, doesn't mean it isn't first and foremost a business.

Frey & Henley as equal managing partners started the business with a shared vision. Each brought individual strengths and weaknesses to the partnership and between them had sufficient drive and determination to make it happen and reach their goals. If a business is to be successfully maintained or substantially increased, then change is inevitable. If their relationships with Glyn Johns, Geffen, Bernie and Felder were not in the best interest of the business as they saw it, then things needed to be changed.

Felder might have been the greatest guitar player on the planet, but if you are trying to run a successful business and you have an employee whose behavior on a day-to-day basis is derisive and contrary, then things need to be changed.

IMO, Glenn was and continues to be the driving force behind the band. He has fought to maintain his and Henley's original vision. I don't see him as the primary antagonist. I see him as a smart and savvy businessman who has also proved himself as an extraordinary musician, composer and arranger.

As far as their "political leanings" I'm glad that they are not complacent in this area. I'm glad that they are concerned about the world that they and their children live in. If their higher profile gives them greater influence to bring about change and they use that influence when and how they choose, then good for them.

Just my opinion.

quote from SpringBo

I don't agree that musicians should think of themselves as a business first and foremost. To me that's for the record companies and managers. I would hope the musicians would be in it for their love of music, not their love of money. When I was a teenager in the early '70's, a record company would stick with a band even if their first or even second album wasn't commercially successful, because it was the music that mattered. Back then an artist was given a chance to grow, and so much great music came from that time because of that. Joe addressed it in the doc when he said that the record company just wanted an album from the Eagles, and if they had gone into the studio and "farted" (Joe's word), the record company would have sold it because all they cared about was the bottom line. I work for a large corporation and I know that myself and the rest of us peons who work there are easily replaceable, but I don't think it's the same in a band where each individual brings his or her own special talents to the mix. JMHO.

SB, I have to agree with you on this one. A band is not a business & nothing like running a "bakery"
Frey & Henley admittedly took over the control as leaders of the band..I don't think there was any question of that...Nobody elected them the leaders, but that aside, how is Don Felder an "employee " behaving badly???? Wow, Felder was brought in as an equal partner & it was put into a binding contract, so he should have equal say in things, but that is not how Henley & Frey wanted it. I do not think that Frey is the driving force behind the band, & that musically it is Don Henley who is...But that's just my opinion. Was there a vision they had for the band in the 70's?? I'm not even so sure about that because things kept changing.

Many people have said that certain things were done "for the good of the band" Well, if things were so good, how did the whole thing fall into pieces & was in such a mess that the break up lasted for the time period of 14 years???Obviously, things weren't going so good.

Frankly, the band is making the money & having the success from their old songs from the 70's...that's the reality of it. The new music they put out for LROOE was moderately successful, but they no longer play anything from that album in concert...The success of HFO, was predominately the old songs as well. so they have become successful replaying their old music, like many other 70's bands out there...Frankly, I feel that much of the success of the band is due to the management by Irving Asoff. I think that without him, they wouldn't be where they are today...I think maybe even Henley & Frey would agree with that.