Arizona's New Law On Illegal Immigration

[TimothyBFan]

This is an email I received this morning from my aunt.


How would you like to be living in a state held hostage by Political Correctness.
Hey everyone out there!


We, in Arizona, know you're boycotting us -- but you really should come out here and see our Beautiful Sonoran Desert.




This is on an 'illegal super - highway' from Mexico to the USA (Tucson) used by human smugglers.

This area is located in a wash, approximately 1.5 miles long, just south of Tucson. If a flood came, all of this would be washed to the river and then onto the sea.




It is estimated that over 5,000 discarded backpacks are in the wash. Countless water containers, food wrappers, clothing, feces, including thousands of soiled diapers.




As we kept walking down the wash, we thought for sure it was going to end, but around every corner was more and more trash!




And of course the trail leading out of the wash in our city, heads directly NORTH into Tucson, then leads to your town tomorrow.



They've already come through here. Isn't Arizona just beautiful, America? Why would you boycott us?

Our desert has basically been turned into a landfill.

[MikeA]

I had seen that photo journal before Willie, and can scarcely believe what the AZ folks down there are having to deal with.

[sodascouts]

I understand that the people who cooked up "Let's boycott Arizona" have their hearts in the right place (for the most part - some politicians are just using this for their own benefit), but things like those images illustrate how easy it is to minimize something that you're not having to deal with personally. I hate boycotts anyway - punishing the people for what their politicians did (presumably in hopes of forcing the people to do what you want and vote out the politicians you don't like) - it doesn't seem right to me.

[bernie's bender]

My folks are growers not too far from the border... (in CA)

A bunch of messy clothes is, well, a mess, but that is really the least of it....

The full photo essay explains exactly what and why the folks leave the clothes... but, the big question is why do they need to?

These folks aren't coming here and starving.... they are getting jobs in businesses run by people we know and support. I'd bet nearly every person on this board visits a place at least once a week that has illegal immigrants working there... We are all part of the problem and the solution.

Boycotting is a funny thing. The boycotts some folks feel are totally justified other folks think are ridiculous (Dixie Chicks? Really?) I remember the grape boycotts of my childhood. The short hoe boycotts of my teens... to help the underpaid and dangerous conditions for farm workers...

My folks always paid UFW wages, but often, in order to get the fruit in, they resorted to using brokers who used (and probably still do) illegal workers. There isn't a pool of workers that are citizens to tap for those purposes even at union wage. My folks demand accounting from the brokers to make sure they aren't exploiting the workers (skimming) but it is an extra hassle that, if we actually had people who want to do that work for the prevailing union wage, they would pay it.

If we have a demand for jobs that we cannot fill with our citizens, why are we making folks walk across the desert? If we don't want drugs to be smuggled into the country, why don't we stop taking them? If a person smokes pot and hits the 2 am taco truck... that is supporting the problem, not solving it.

If the folks weren't being forced to sneak in, would they walk through the desert? Would the whole thing be laced with criminality?

I agree that boycotting, in our current era, is beyond ridiculous... and needless too... the people here who smoke pot, aren't gonna stop. The people who look the other way when their gardener comes to mow the grass or when they get a bag of tamales off the cart or swing by wendy's for a burger made by someone who isn't here legally.. we're not gonna stop...

But, that is where those clothes come from.

If the roles were reversed... if Mexico had work that I could go do and provide for my family and I was living in poverty here in the states.... and I could go there and make money.... I would do it. I would break the law to provide for my family. I would litter in the Mexican national park on my way to a better life for my family.

It wouldn't be my favorite thing. But, I would do it. As patriotic as I am, and as much as I love my country, my family and their needs would come first...

[MikeA]

I understand all that BB. I would do just about anything short of killing someone to provide for my family but that doesn't make it right in anyone's eyes but my own. Granted that these people are illegally coming into the States to support their families, but how falls the responsibility on those of the States to take care of them? I'll do my part and stop smoking pot....I did that 30 or 40 years ago. I can't stop eating at establishments nor stop buying from establishments that hire illegals because I simply don't know who they are.

This is a horrible humanitarian conflict. I don't know the resolution, but can't see that it falls on the American side of the border. Our only offense in this is a strong defense in stopping the influx. And I still maintain that it needs to be stopped. I'm talking about the illegal influx. I have no objections to legal immigration.

I must have missed something implied with the justification of the shed clothing. Why would it need to be shed? Does the clothing somehow identify the illegals or does it mean they are being forced to disrobe to hasten their deaths in the desert?

If it means that fruit and produce growers have to pay more than they do now for pickers, they they have to pay it. It will raise the price to the consumers, but that's the way capitalism is supposed to work...supply and demand.

(BTW) there are some really attractive buys on MiM Teles on eBay right now!

[bernie's bender]

The shed clothing is explained here.

I'm not saying that anybody needs to do anything, just that the problem is so vast and so entwined in each of our lives (even though we didn't ask for it, there it is.)

My mom helped some folks get their immigration stuff done back in the 80's... they were some of the best people I've ever met. They got legal and came here... Jose, the guy I most remember, was kind of a foreman for my folks and 3 other growers. (btw, this stuff is not political, my parents are hard core right wing grower types, but two of the other growers are big lefties and the other guy is a moderate.... they share the hard work of running an operation, a passion for the land, and being good folks who care about each other... which none of those things involve political parties.)

Anyway, Jose went on to bring his family to the US, he went to college, got a degree in AG and has become very successful... I saw him 5 years ago or so, he dropped by at the end of the season... he sat down with us and burst into tears and thanked my folks profusely for the help that they'd been... it completely changed his life...

I remember when he pulled away in his new chevy truck with a AAA sticker on it! my stepfather said, "That guy is what America is about."

My stepfather was a WWII vet, Korean War Vet, 30 year reserve veteran of the Navy Lt. Commander and a retired Vice President of one of the largest companies in the US.

We've just got to find a way to A) stop the crime element-- the drugs and guns and B) find a way to equalize the border so that folks don't need to become criminals to work C) limit the few who are exploiting American goodwill for personal benefit. Those three are huge...

[thelongrun]

Yes, those photos of litter are shocking. Yes, those are in AZ. But we could find equal scenes all over the World. Yes, Who cares? Those are in my County so I am against. But a the end of the Day, No: Nothings make this Ok, not even tons of littering... I mean this is just 1 storie from last week or so, of just 1 soul (I must say this one was in CA. no AZ.)...

Not even if the guy was a Smuggler either Trafficant (Wich he was not. He was a Construction worker with several kids and a wife). The word is he was beat to death.

http://www.cbs47.tv/news/state/story...Q.cspx?rss=154

Bottom line for me: USA and Mexico people are not the problem. They have a common problem. And both Governments are going nowhere fast.

[MikeA]

I am still obtuse on this issue. Is it really that difficult for a Mexican citizen to gain legal entry into the U.S.? With satellite surveillance would it be that difficult to detect large scale movement in one area and get patrols onsite fast enough to turn them back? Infrared would definitely distinguish body heat even from outer space.

I hope I don't come across as a hater of Hispanics. That just isn't the case at all. Yes, it's obviously a very convoluted situation. Were it not, I am sure that it would have already been resolved.

[bernie's bender]

I am still obtuse on this issue. Is it really that difficult for a Mexican citizen to gain legal entry into the U.S.? With satellite surveillance would it be that difficult to detect large scale movement in one area and get patrols onsite fast enough to turn them back? Infrared would definitely distinguish body heat even from outer space.

I hope I don't come across as a hater of Hispanics. That just isn't the case at all. Yes, it's obviously a very convoluted situation. Were it not, I am sure that it would have already been resolved.

Yes. it is very difficult and expensive. In my teens, if you wanted to go back and forth, it was trivial... and for the most part, the governments looked the other way...

but, drugs changed everything. and now, weapons has really changed everything.

The Border Patrol is huge now and the walls are also huge... granted, it is a very large border... but much of the terrain is brutal and desolate and dangerous... there is a reason most of it is uninhabited or lightly inhabited... some of the harshest desert in the world...

My grandfather was a true 'wetback' he swam the rio grande when he was 12 to come to San Antonio.. he got a job in a kitchen, worked his way up and became a pretty famous chef in big hotels (in Atlanta, Houston, Beverly Hills etc)... he was a tremendous person... eventually became a citizen, always paid taxes etc...

I did a speech last week and I showed a picture of my grandfather and several people remarked afterward... kind of uncomfortably "I had no idea you were hispanic... you don't, uh, well, it was just a surprise!" (my grandmother was an english and french huguenot... who became a catholic! so blond and blue are pretty common in my family!)

The Long Run has it right... we're all just people.... and mostly good people... lots and lots of people die trying to get into this country every year... the number is not really known because the bodies aren't always found... and there is no meaningful communication between the two sides as to who is who..

it is really really awful..

[tequila girl]

I just came across this on Yahoo News......How Terrible

R.I.P

Drug hitmen dump 72 bodies at Mexican ranch

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67P2PI20100827