Arizona's New Law On Illegal Immigration

[pueblo47]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_immigration_cops_divided

Talk about opening a can of worms!

[cynd1231]

The controversy is only going to grow on this issue, especially down here in the Southwest sector of the country. Many of my friends and coworkers here in Albuquerque were actually born and raised right here and are US citizens by birth. Yet they stand to be among the many who will end up being 'profiled' based on their heritage alone. While there is a huge concern about the number of people crossing the border to the south and coming into our country 'under the radar', in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California there is a vast population of people who are of Hispanic descent INCLUDING a large number of ELECTED OFFICIALS. In fact, the legal Hispanic population in New Mexico is such that I'M considered a minority here! It is beyond my comprehension how they can believe this law isn't going to result in a great deal of profiling that will result in countless lawsuits! While I feel we need to do SOMETHING to stem the flow of people coming into the States illegally, I seriously doubt this is the answer and foresee a huge amount of legal action resulting from wrongful stops by law enforcement. Add to that the large number of LEGAL Hispanics who are members of our law enforecement agencies in this part of the country and you've got a recipe for disaster! I would say that easily 50% of the Albuquerque Police Department is comprised of people with Hispanic roots but it doesn't hinder their ability to do their job!!!!!

The writer of the news article is absolutely right that the commission of crimes isn't limited to minorities and illegals. Neither is it regionally restricted to this part of the country. This law in Arizona has thrust the Southwest into the forefront of the news and I have no doubt it's going to remain in the headlines for a long time to come. With the economic problems we're facing in this country (California has announced today they anticipate the layoff and/or furlough of 600,000 state employees), we've got much bigger fish to fry. People tend to overlook the fact that these 'illegals' are the very people who harvest the crops that put food on our tables and they're hard-working people who are thrilled to have the job. How many of us would be willing to go out and toil in the fields to feed our families and pay our bills after years in cushy jobs in fancy offices with air conditioning and runs to Starbucks for a $6 cup of coffee? I haven't heard a single story about any Wall Street reject clamoring to get his hands dirty and we WON'T because they think they are too good for such honest work!!!

I think that all politicians should be required to 'walk the walk' before they even consider this sort of legislation. I suspect they'd think twice about some things if they had to actually LIVE it first hand and get a taste of what they propose to subject others to!

[tbs fanatic]

It's crazy. Arizona is just heading for a whole lot of grief and it will be 'expensive grief' which the Arizona taxpayer will ultimately have to pay for.

[MikeA]

Its' a mess...tis the truth!

Gotta do something, but I don't know if what Arizona is doing is the answer.

[thelongrun]

My my... friends being a Mexican Arizona's neighbor (a true friend and fan of Arizona's people and a veeery regular visitor, with family of my own over there).... you can't expect me to miss this... As a matter of fact I will get back to you because right now I am at Work in my Air conditoned private and I wanna take my time. Now allow me to say I agree with Cynd1231, you nailed it.

[thelongrun]

Run, I just opened this thread for debate and your opinions are greatly welcomed and appreciated. We need to hear from the opposite side to help us try to understand better. All I can do is pass on what I get from the gang in AZ and NM.

Sure, I get you and I'll be glad to. As our friends already said, is a can of worms, and a mess already... I am not a diehardsidetaking on this. I love my Country Mexico and I care for my Countrymen as I also like and care -and I mean it- the USA people.

There are kind good people and doublemoral crap persons on both sides.
Politicians as start, as well Criminal interests (aka Drugs) on this matter, in both sides. Workers shouldn't have nothing to do.

[MikeA]

I have to look at this as a more black/white issue with few shades of grey. The drug and arms runners....the law is pretty straight forward on that....catch them, shoot it out with them if neccessary and jail the rest. I can't scrape up a lot of sympathy for them.

Those coming into the country illegally....well, that is like that ad our cable company had about cable theft. Their illustration was a line in a grocery store. A guy is checking out and runs up a $25.00 bill or something like that. He tells the checker to shove it when told the total and just walked out of the store without paying. The checker turns to the next person in line and says, "Well, looks like I'll just have to add $25 to your total because he didn't pay."

I don't know what financial assistance and medical care the "illegals" are getting. I've heard some pretty extreme tales...and they may be all tales! But one thing is for certain, if they are working, they are doing so with under the table pay and are not taxed on it. Nor are they contributing to an already hurting Social Security Fund.

And, if they are NOT working, then WHAT are they doing to make money to survive on?

That there are millions who are here in the States LEGALLY has to make it difficult to identify and take action against those who are cheating the system. I'm sure that many of these people are very good people who are desparate....I wish we could fix the World's Problems. But we can't. We usually do more harm than good when we try! But we Citizens and Legal Imigrants are in a desparate situation too and while it may not be as desparate as that of some of our Mexican Neighbors, it could get that way in a hurry...This is a situation that in itself is desparate. I cannot imagine action that would solve this unfortunate situation. All Out Border War? God I hope not.

As for Arizona....I don't know whether to really get behind the Law they are promoting or not. I'm not that smart. But they ARE trying to do something and that is a lot more than has been done in the past. I'd say that if someone has a better idea, present it and lets get this mess cleaned up.

[bernie's bender]

The problem is very difficult and not simple. If anyone tells you it is simple, they are just not looking at all the parts (or separate the parts to win an argument.)

Arizona is desperate. The violence, kidnapping etc has made Phoenix and Tucson very dangerous places. El Paso, Tx is a very very dangerous place. Part of this is the drug war and the pressure being brought in Mx by their government. Their president was quoted recently as saying the violence and bloodshed was a sign of progress and that all of it was a sign that they are starting to make progress in breaking up the cartels.

But, that is causing tremendous instability in the US. That is just one piece of the problem. The very real concern of terrorists coming into the country illegally and the influx of russian organized crime and eastern bloc organized crime is at least as big a threat as undocumented workers. Those issues don't get the focus they deserve.

We'd think that after all the "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall" reality that we know... the failure of the maginot line, the wall thing does not work.

the sweep and clear tactics don't work for long. martial law is only effective for 30 days. we know this stuff and we don't learn from it and we get desperate and we make the same mistakes.

the only answer to the violence and the influx of undocumented workers probably sits within equity and equalization. when we remove the money from the drugs (and when we stop demanding so many illegal drugs!) and when folks can earn a decent living in their home countries, they'll stay home.

How do we get there? Quit taking drugs. Encourage your friends and family. Just stop it. If we stopped smoking pot and snorting coke and shooting up, there would be no need for the drug trade. Who takes these drugs? We do. Our families do. Our friends do.

My grandfather was an undocumented worker (illegal alien)... he was a 'wet back' who snuck across the texas border. He later became a citizen, he worked hard all his life, he paid social security, he fought in a war for our country.... all he wanted was an opportunity to do better, to contribute and be part of something.

Until the Mx people can get an equal shake in their country to what we have in ours... they will come to make their lives and their families lives better....

If I were poor and I had a family to take care of... and the best opportunity I had to make things better for my family and my future involved me sneaking into a neighboring country to do jobs that in many cases are unwanted by the general populace and that provided that opportunity for my family.... I'd do it without hesitation.

If you are a grower in California or Arizona and you need to get your fruit in... the chances that you will have enough labor available and willing to work for you at a cost that would allow you to afford to grow and produce fruit is zero. What happens is you use a labor broker and he assumes the 'risk' and you contract to him at the going union rate and your fruit gets picked and people buy it at 'everyday low prices'....

again, this issue isn't simple, I feel nothing but sorrow for the folks in Arizona who felt the need to put the law forward, I feel sorry for the LEO's who will have to enforce it, I feel sorry for the folks who will be harmed by it.... but, maybe, just maybe, we'll start to pay attention to the whole problem and maybe, just maybe we'll all start to own our part of it and get a resolution that can allow us to live in peace.

[tequila girl]

Here's another one from Phoenix:



In the last two years he has found 17 dead bodies and two Koran bibles.

Another rancher testified that daily drugs are brought across his ranch in a militaryoperation. A point man with a machine gun goes in front, 1/2 mile behind are the guards fully armed, 1/2 mile behind them are the drugs, behind the drugs 1/2 mile are more guards.These people are violent and they will kill anyone who gets in the way. This was not the only rancher we heard that day that talked about the drug trains.

One man told of two illegal's who came upon his property one shot in the back and the other in the arm by the drug runners who had forced them to carry the drugs and then shot them. Daily they listen to gun fire during the night it is not safe to leave his family alone on the ranch and they can't leave the ranch for fear of nothing being left when they come back.

Wow.... I don't know a lot about the United States' problems Re: "Imigrants" we have them here too, but that is astounding!! I really am lost for words

[AzEaglesFan]

Just a short time before the law was passed a rancher near the border was shot and killed on his property, they think by drug runners. Around the same time a Pinal County Deputy came across some drug runners in the desert and they shot him with an AK47 only thing that saved him was his bullet proof vest. They find bodies in the desert where illegals have paid what is called a coyote to get them into Arizona and then the coyote leaves them in the desert to die. We also have what they call drop houses. They have found 20 or 30 people begin held in a small room until they can get more money to release them. Something has to be done, but I don't know that this law is the answer or just something else to cause more trouble. Unless it is blocked and it could be, it takes effect in July. Our son is a deputy in another state and he is sure hoping that they don't follow Arizona and pass the same law there. His job is tough enough as it is.