Sporting Sensations

[VAisForEagleLovers]

No fighting, you two!!!

From what I've heard, the Cards were definitely in the wrong, and it goes way beyond stealing signs and the 'traditional' cheating that goes with the game. This is serious stuff with federal consequences.

On the other hand, the man wasn't smart enough to use different passwords and made sure the systems were very similar.

[AlreadyGone95]

Here's an article on the whole ordeal

Why the heck would you even want to hack into another team's system if it's a team that you don't even play against? I could understand the reasoning behind it if the cards hacked another NL central division team, but not an AL team!

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Do you really want an answer? Because I could go on and on and on about this...

[AlreadyGone95]

Do you really want an answer? Because I could go on and on and on about this...

Yes, because I don't get why they did it, unless it was for revenge. Am I missing something here?

I admit that I don't follow the Cards or the Astros much because they are not in my team's(Atlanta Braves) division. (or league for the Astros)

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Well, OK, just remember you asked for it!!

Keeping in mind we don't know exactly what information was in the database or what other documents they may have gotten that would clue them into what the data means, in general the data they got was the analysis the Astros have done on players they may have had an interest in. So even if none were Cardinals, having the data and with the Cardinals own analysis of the players, they could figure out what the Astros 'secret formula' for analysis is. Every team has one. How they scout players and how they grade them, against each other and determine a fit into their organization. So it wasn't exactly data that would help them when they played each other, except the Cards would know what weaknesses and strengths the Astros thought each of their players had (assuming they were in the database).

So, the Cards would know who the Astros may be interested in acquiring, and may now possess information about other players that their scouts didn't give them. If they know who the Astros might want to pick up in a trade, they'd also know who they'd be willing to give up. They'd have the upper hand in a direct trade between the two teams, and for other teams, the Cards could easily become a third party and take advantage of it. While it likely wouldn't hurt the Astros and the other team, it's taking advantage of something the other teams in the league don't have access to. Also, the Cards could find that another team wants to unload a player and have talked to the Astros about a possible trade, and the Cards could jump the gun and get the guy instead. Lastly, they'd have reports from their own scouts as well as the Astros scouts, getting double the analysis and paying for only one.

It was supposedly 10 months worth of data, but depending on the time period that could cover parts of two seasons. That 10 months was reported on last summer, and it's hard to say if more happened after that, but the Astros reportedly fixed their data breach not long afterwards. I guess it took until now to determine who did it. Deadspin (last summer) reported that the breach included internal trade chatter and front office communications regarding trade overtures to and from other teams. Right now, the FBI isn't saying if there's more than that.

At the end of all this, the executive that went from the Cards to the Astros, Luhnow, and his team were known around baseball for building the best farm system in baseball. He left the Cards to help out the Astros, who desperately needed it. Mostly, I imagine certain members of the Cardinals wanted some revenge, perhaps? Some of the information went out to the public, some of it facts from the Astros, and some of it were things that were totally made up to possibly make Luhnow look like he didn't know what he was doing. I've not read all of the Deadspin report from last summer, I'll get around to it sooner or later. The report said players and people. So I'm curious as to what people and what their functions would be. Did they scout other scouts? Coaches? Front office people? Hard to say when we'll know more... I imagine every trade the Cards did (or didn't do) over the last year will be scrutinized.

[AlreadyGone95]

I didn't even think of anything along the lines of potential trades, "secret fornula", scouting etc. I was thinking about seeing lineups,stats, practice etc. That's why I couldn't figure out why an NL team would be wanting to do this against an AL team. According to the article I posted above, these 2 teams didn't play each other last year and won't play each other this year.

Yeah, having beforehand knowledge of what the Astros might be doing to strengthen their team would definitely help block them doing so. (Again, complete stupidity on my part for not realizing this). Scouting is a big deal, especially if your team is getting some of the first picks. I remember, about a week ago, watching my Braves play, and one of the announcers doing an interview with one of the team's scouting directors because draft day was coming up. He was discussing what the Braves needed most: pitchers or players. To know that,and even more secret stuff really turns the cards in your favor.

10 months? That seems like an awfully long time for information to be leaking out. If the Cards do a bad job of hiding their hacking, how did no one get suspicious before the FBI? Plus, how could Luhnow not realize that using the same password is not a good idea? That's something I've heard about for years!

I can definitely see the Cards wanting revenge, especially if Luhnow's leaving was bitter. In 2011, the Cards were the Champs, so I'm sure that they weren't happy to have a executive leave them for a deadbeat team.I need to read the Deadspin report as well. This something that wull be talked about for awhile!

I wonder just how much the Cards got ahold of? Only time will tell.

ETA: Does anyone remember what year the Astros changed from a NL to AL team? It was last year, I think or 2013?

[Houston Baby]

Great job VA!

And yes AG it was 2013. I still wish the 'stros were in the NL. I do not like designated hitters nor the fact that we have so many late West Coast games!

My main take on this is REALLY Luhnow? You could not think of NEW passwords, REALLY? Geez Louise - let me help you!

I still love ya Brooke!

[AlreadyGone95]

And yes AG it was 2013. I still wish the 'stros were in the NL. I do not like designated hitters nor the fact that we have so many late West Coast games!

I miss watching The Braves play the Astros. The little hill/incline in center field of Minute Maid Park was trouble! (Probably still is). I can't stand DHs. I just don't see the need. That's why I'm not too fond of the inter-league play. (That and the fact that you can't gain any ground in your division).

I was wondering about when the Astros went to the AL because of the time frame of the hacking. Since it was 2013, that probably would've been before that.

[Brooke]

Great job VA!

And yes AG it was 2013. I still wish the 'stros were in the NL. I do not like designated hitters nor the fact that we have so many late West Coast games!

My main take on this is REALLY Luhnow? You could not think of NEW passwords, REALLY? Geez Louise - let me help you!

I still love ya Brooke!

Well, I haven't had time to really dig in to this, but at first I thought it was a joke and someone was trying to just cast doubt. I guess it's not. Bummer. I need to read up now.

I really can't believe Mike Matheny would have any of it, but who knows? I don't really know these people. It makes me sad that anyone in the Cardinals organization would stoop to this and I hope they didn't. But really, how could knowing some of this stuff really matter in a game? Unless players were paid to do certain things such as a pitcher intentionally hitting a batter? Really?

We shall see!

And thanks, HB!

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Well, I haven't had time to really dig in to this, but at first I thought it was a joke and someone was trying to just cast doubt. I guess it's not. Bummer. I need to read up now.

I really can't believe Mike Matheny would have any of it, but who knows? I don't really know these people. It makes me sad that anyone in the Cardinals organization would stoop to this and I hope they didn't. But really, how could knowing some of this stuff really matter in a game? Unless players were paid to do certain things such as a pitcher intentionally hitting a batter? Really?

We shall see!

And thanks, HB!

Perceived weaknesses and strengths would be an advantage in head-to-head competition. Like AG95 said, there's little head-to-head competition between now. Most of the advantage is in the long dissertation I wrote earlier! It's still not much of an advantage, and certainly not enough information to go to prison for... Perhaps they did it just because they could. They tried the password and when it worked, took advantage of it. Apparently, it's not illegal to log in without authorization, what's against the law is taking the next step and accessing data.