Copyright Trolls Steal All the Fun...

[bernie's bender]

Mike,

the respect is mutual to be sure!

The story about the girls was intended to illustrate that they were angry because they felt a sense of entitlement, that they DESERVED to sing because they were in the club... kind of the customer is always right.

We have two members in our country band that HATE when people want to sing and get made when we let them. It is there position that we are professional musicians performing music for people (for pay)... it is my take that we are entertainers being paid to entertain the crowd which can include letting audience members sing once in awhile...

I think hanging out in your house or in a garage and jamming with friends poses no issue on the copyright front (obviously xeroxing charts and music is a violation, I have absolutely been in violation of this.)

The two key issues: 1) If an artist (or his folks) does not enforce copyright does he lose rights? Yes. And he loses money that the law says is his. 2) Is there a benefit garnered by the violator? Is the gain measurable in monetary terms? Some times. Remember the ukulele guy... that Jake guy who did the "over the rainbow" and became a pretty big star through his youtube... did choosing that song, benefit him? I'd argue it did (I also think the copyright for that song has lapsed, so it was hunky dory) but if he had done, say, "Fire and Rain" or "Take it Easy" shouldn't the songwriter have benefitted too? I don't know for sure myself.

I don't have any strong feelings about this issue. A song is not like a brownie (this is my stoner friends explanation of this.) A song is not a brownie... now, if some fools went and took 3 or 4 brownies that your grandma made for you because she loves you... she'd be mad and you'd be mad. Then, if you found them selling those brownies for 2 bucks a piece, you'd really be mad. Hell, if they had asked your granny, she would have made them some... but stealing them.. that is bad.

one other thing I've learned over the years is: They call it show business, not show fun. When we get disappointed in artists whose music we love... just realize, us criticizing what they do professionally would be like having your neighbor who loves your yard come to your office and be mad about your phone mannerisms. it is about making money... for better or worse.

[MikeA]

As you've seen in my posts BB, I've done a turn-around after my initial kneejerk response to the HC version posted on YouTube. Worthwhile for me personally because it has caused me to really think through the points you've made.

I still maintain that there is no infringement if someone is "covering" a song that is not intended to be used for personal gain. By that I am strictly talking about money. Not an inflated ego that has been "gained". I suppose you could say that getting your ego stroked is personal gain, but I don't think you could assign a specific monetary value to it.

Where I had to rethink my first reaction lies in the realization that YouTube is like a huge Bar that doesn't require a cover charge. To the fans, it's FREE. To the Artists, it's free. With YouTube as the Bar, it is getting paid for the presence of the fans not through the drinks they sell at the Bar, but rather by providing an audience to the Advertisers who ARE paying Them for the privilege of promoting their products.

Oh, with the girls....Don't see them "entitled" to anything. There were four of them...right? You mentioned that they threw a glass that broke and got some of the dancers wet so there must have been quite a few other people in the club. If it had been just the three Other girls present in the club, I might have said "Okay, come on up." But the other people in the club at the time had "entitlements" too. They were entitled to hear a professional band performing and had paid through whatever means for that "right". The did not pay to hear some Karaoke Queen potentially butcher one of your songs!

There may be exceptions...such as that the bar and you may have been contracted to provide entertainment for a company party. You might at that time either invite or be required to let those attending participate up on stage.

I understand that there are "open mic" nights at bars and clubs around the country where that isn't the case. Guitarists, singers, drummers...whoever, know that they will get a shot at performing on those nights with other musicians.

Or maybe you KNEW that the person requesting a stage presence was GOOD and didn't mind bringing them up.

Their "entitlements" just don't extent to the extreme of getting up on stage and interrupting the flow of the band's set. I understand that there are "open mic" nights at bars and clubs around the country where that isn't the case.

[RamboIV]

Well things have gone from bad to worse. Cass Country Music claimed a copyright infringement against my account again. You know what for?

A live video of "The Long Run"... BY DON FELDER!

How the Hell does Henley's publishing company claim a copyright infringement on a video that is not even of him!? It's a cover version! Good Lord!

So now my account is deleted. Thank you very much, Mr. Henley.

Thank god I saved back ups of all my videos. This means I can re-upload them in higher quality, I guess. At least non-Eagles material.

[TimothyBFan]

I really cannot get started on this whole thing!!!

[bernie's bender]

Well things have gone from bad to worse. Cass Country Music claimed a copyright infringement against my account again. You know what for?

A live video of "The Long Run"... BY DON FELDER!

How the Hell does Henley's publishing company claim a copyright infringement on a video that is not even of him!? It's a cover version! Good Lord!

So now my account is deleted. Thank you very much, Mr. Henley.

Thank god I saved back ups of all my videos. This means I can re-upload them in higher quality, I guess. At least non-Eagles material.

it isn't about the performance, it is about the authorship of the song. Cass Country could probably care less about who does it, they want to be paid when it is performed by anyone or shared by anyone. It is their legal right, they are just enforcing it.

[EagleLady]

it isn't about the performance, it is about the authorship of the song. Cass Country could probably care less about who does it, they want to be paid when it is performed by anyone or shared by anyone. It is their legal right, they are just enforcing it.

And it is our right to want to listen to a song on Youtube is that so bad?

[sodascouts]

I'm not surprised they forced you to take down The Long Run. Don Henley co-wrote that tune, so his company can take down videos of other people performing it. The fact that the performer is ex-Eagle Don Felder is ironic, but not relevant legally.

Now, if Cass County Music attempted to force you to take down a video of Felder doing Heavy Metal or other solo material simply because he happened to be an Eagle at one time... then they'd be going beyond their legal purview.

CCM does have a legal right to take the videos down. We may hope that they wouldn't be so heavy handed and unbending. We may hope that they would think outside of the "YOU TUBE IS EVIL" box. We may hope they would follow the lead of other successful bands who have utilized YouTube instead of fighting a futile battle which accomplishes nothing but garnering ill will from fans. We may hope they would realize that just because they CAN take down the videos doesn't mean they SHOULD.

However, if they choose to be unyielding, we have to just shake our heads, sigh heavily, and suck it up - unless you wanna go on the upload/removal merry-go-round, or quit YouTube altogether and find someplace else to post your videos.

[EagleLady]

All I can say is.............. Go to Dailymotion or Hulu. I wish Don wouldn't be such a scrooge towards Youtube.

[luvthelighthouse]

What I don't get is, there are hundreds of Eagles video's on youtube. How do they decide which ones they want to take down?

[Freypower]

And it is our right to want to listen to a song on Youtube is that so bad?

No, but whose rights are more important? Ours or the song's co-author?

It's worth repeating that only CCM is doing this, not Red Cloud Music (Glenn's company) although all his vidoes were removed from YouTube at one point. There are still a couple there, but Universal didn't put them up.