The infamous Knoxville incident

Hello friends, on this day in 1977, the Eagles played Knoxville, TN. According to Eagles lore of the last 10 years, Randy and Glenn had an unfortunate altercation backstage. It was the beginning of the end for Randy's time in the group he helped to establish.

What if what we were told about this incident is not quite accurate? A Johnson City Press-Chronicle review of the show, published on July 2, 1977, mentions that Randy did indeed sing "Take It to the Limit" that night - not as an encore, but mid-show as was its typical placement.

This article/essay gives convincing evidence that (1) TITTL was never played as an encore, and (2) Randy performed the song without fail at all the shows on the Hotel California tour that we have evidence of, by audio recording or published review.

See what you think: https://randymeisnerretrospective.co...om-the-eagles/

That is very interesting to say the least.

I think three points that I kept coming back to were as such:

1) The problem wasn't TITTL after all, but rather Randy's unwillingness to go back out for a 3rd encore. Maybe that was just the icing on the cake I find it very interesting that GF, DH, and even Joe Walsh (in HOTE) have all said it was about singing TITTL and hitting that high note. But the fact is there is a lot of irrefutable evidence now that TITTL was done mid set and so what really was it that made them drive Randy away. I can't help but think it was perhaps a frustration over squabbles over who sings what when. Boy does that sound familiar with another fellow a few years later! I mean Bernie agrees the beer over Glenn's head happened and the walking out in the studio happened so there is a story that lines up on all fronts about what was Bernie's final straw moment. But this with Randy - something else had to be happening behind the scenes. Power play? Maybe. Randy being burnt out? Likely. But it's looking more and more like it wasn't related to TITTL as I once believed. Whoever did that article did some digging, so kudos to them. But I don't think it fully answers what it was. Personally I don't doubt the possibility of what happened with Felder and it was some complaining and nagging. But also I do think Randy was getting burnt out being on the road all the time. So maybe he was already on the fence. But I think be it Bernie, Randy, Felder, or Walsh - they were now 2nd fiddle. And every single one of them resented it. Bernie and Randy made their own decision through burnout and losing their cool type moments. Felder had his decision made for him with the non-stop power struggles. Bernie, then Randy, then Felder. Joe was the only one comfortable with being who he was where he was. I guess that's why he's still there!

2) Walsh and Felder knew who was buttering their bread and as much as the sticking-it-to-the-man sounded good when they were all equally pissed off and ready to go out on their own, they weren't going to back out of a big megagroup band making lots of bread. It's hard to fault them. But later Felder himself would find out that Walsh would do the same thing when he was fired. So in a way I'm sure Randy was amused when Walsh didn't side with Felder just like those two didn't side with Randy and agree to quit as prior discussed. But I can't really blame Walsh and Felder. They had it made being in the Eagles. It's one thing to talk big when your mad but when your level headed and you realize what you have, as trying as it may be, it is pretty much is all just bark and no bite. However, I can also see it from Randy's side and feeling betrayed. It's a no-win situation.

3) This idea of DH and GF being Lennon and McCartney is a given. Of course they were. They were the primary breadwinners. I mean Glenn wore a shirt that said Song Power. While the group was founded on more mutual terms and the idea doing it as the group, there will always be those that go above and beyond and are rewarded with more control because they wrote the lion's share of the work. Or they just do it anyway and get away with it for those same reasons. I don't like it, but there is almost certainly a hierarchy in every group and I personally feel like Glenn was at the top followed by Henley and then everyone else. I think the fact Glenn asked DH to start a band with him and not the other way around - even Henley knew it was Glenn's band. All of them had major contributions to the band, but the whole thing about Song Power was something they believed and I do think for better or worse it was in fact Glenn's band and I think he was their MVP. Other than him choosing to sing "less and less" because of Don Henley's vocal prowess, there was no doubt who was steering the ship in the Eagles and it almost certainly was not done as a group and even DH deferred to Glenn. Glenn was an A-type personality warts and all. It is what it is. You can either choose to continue to play ball or leave. Make any group of any kind and before too long there will be someone who becomes leader. And it's not always an election! Make too much of a stink and your decision about should I stay or should I go will be made for you. It is a business after all. And it's a cold hearted SOB.

Hi Austin, I appreciate your input. My impression as far as the "Randy refused to sing Take It to the Limit" myth is that it's become so widespread from the 2013 Eagles documentary that the horse has left the barn and there's no getting it back. However false and unfair it was, Randy will have that reputation as being unprofessional and refusing to sing his trademark song.

I wonder why the story was - "concocted" sounds a bit conspiratorial, so let's say "put forward." Maybe that's just how Don H., Glenn and Irving remembered it. Or maybe the documentary makers were like, "Guys, we need more drama. What was the nature of the conflict with Randy?" And then the "He refused to go on stage and sing the song that people loved and went crazy for" scenario became more developed and heightened.

Like that saying, "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story."

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Originally Posted by NightMistBlue

Hi Austin, I appreciate your input. My impression as far as the "Randy refused to sing Take It to the Limit" myth is that it's become so widespread from the 2013 Eagles documentary that the horse has left the barn and there's no getting it back. However false and unfair it was, Randy will have that reputation as being unprofessional and refusing to sing his trademark song.

I wonder why the story was - "concocted" sounds a bit conspiratorial, so let's say "put forward." Maybe that's just how Don H., Glenn and Irving remembered it. Or maybe the documentary makers were like, "Guys, we need more drama. What was the nature of the conflict with Randy?" And then the "He refused to go on stage and sing the song that people loved and went crazy for" scenario became more developed and heightened.

Like that saying, "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story."

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I think the story goes before the doc. I think in that Marc Eliot book Henley even recounts the story put forward which predates the HOTE doc. Maybe they just generally remember it that way. Which I guess is possible. But I think by all accounts it was just not accurate.

To me, I believe it is kind of irrelevant because memories fade with time, but it still doesn't change the basic facts. There was lots of tension, fighting, and power plays in the band. All of the members were partially responsible and, unfortunately, some of them chose or were forced to leave an uncomfortable situation. Even Randy doesn't dispute the fact that there were occasions where he complained about singing the song when it was addressed in the History of the Eagles doc. Bottom line for him is that he was burnt out and decided it was time to leave. None of that detracts from his enormous talent and contributions to the band.

Interesting. Perhaps wrongly, but I had never thought that Randy actually went through with his threats to not do the song. So showing that it was done doesn't tell me anything.
It is possible that his reluctance to sing it and not wanting to do the encore (which he admitted) meshed into one story over time, as sometimes happens. Plus, everyone involved's drug and alcohol usage contributed to short tempers and faulty recall.
Unlike a lot of bands, Eagles was not formed by a group of good friends or relatives. Glenn asked each of the members to join because of their tremendous talent, not because they had so much in common. It is no surprise that conflicts were frequent. Despite this, these diverse artists from all over the country came together, made beautiful music, and became America's band. :heart:

As much as I want bands to be a democracy and even think they should be - there are sooooo many power plays between the ones leading and the ones who want it to be equal. Glenn and Don vs the world it seemed. But I concur with Dreamer - it doesn't take away from any of their contributions. It isn't a perfect world. And as bitter of a pill that is to swallow - it's just the truth. Unless you are playing by yourself in the garage - the minute that first buck is made from playing music it becomes like any other business.

Wasn't this also mentioned in Felder's book before the documentary? Not 100% sure, but I seem to recall that I first read about it in Felder's book.

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Originally Posted by chaim

Wasn't this also mentioned in Felder's book before the documentary? Not 100% sure, but I seem to recall that I first read about it in Felder's book.

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I haven't read H&H for a few years but I kinda remember what you are talking about chaim.

I personally don't rule out that there was a few nights where Randy didn't want to sing TITTL. But it wasn't *that* night nor was it an encore song apparently.