Re: Why I no longer am happy with my favorite band
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Originally Posted by
pueblo47
TBF is much more articulate than me, so I consider the majority of her opinions to echo mine. Since you started this thread, I and many others have followed it with great interest and appreciation for the time and thoughtfulness you have put into the discussion.
The one thing that stands out in the documentary that has everyone going one way or the other is Frey's, and to a lesser extent, Henley's arrogance all the way through it. Since this has been discussed, defended and talked about with no end in sight, I won't add any more except to express disappointment.
They are and will remain a fabulously talented bunch of artists.
Thanks for your kind comment.
I cannot imagine how long these debates/discussions have been going on because the Doc has not been out that long, many do not have Showtime, and it has not yet been released for purchase.
Regardless, to people like me who are new to this forum, I am eager to explore what others think, and to see if some of their views mirror mine?
I have focused more on Frey than Henley, but he too came off bad in certain parts of the Doc, and in various books/articles. I would really like to be a fly on the wall if they were to stick Geffen and Henley into a room and let them rehash what really happened both times Geffen was dropped. Clearly there is still some venom between them.
The fact that Frey/Henley are putting on a united front in the Doc and barely touching on their own conflicts is also obvious. Each seemed to have habits/quirks which drove the other crazy, yet nary a peep was mentioned in the Doc. If you never read the books or did any further research, you'd come away thinking everything external of those two caused the split.
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Re: Why I no longer am happy with my favorite band
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Originally Posted by
RebeccaLovesEagles
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Thank you for responding :) I believe according to Felder's book since Bernie and Randy quit their shares reverted back to Eagles LTD. so it would have went from 5/5 to 4/4 to 3/3
Rest assured anyone who leaves me a reply will get one in return. It just may take me a little time to get around to it with so many to reply to.
You are correct regarding Felder's book as I just confirmed it on page 325. Yet it is still a little ambiguous about what exactly happens to ones shares. I remembered him saying Frey/Henley proffered him an offer for his shares after they thought they could fire him, but he refused. Now the question is if L-eadon or Meisner were ever offered a price for their shares after they quit?
Here is the exact wording for you or others to interpret;
"Three people own Eagles Ltd.- Don Henley, Glenn Frey, and Don Felder. We own rights to the name the Eagles, including the right to use that name on record or on tour and the right to license it for use on merchandise. There was a major difference between my so-called departure and that of Bernie and Randy. I never quit, and I never surrendered or offered up my shares of stock. According to our corporate agreement, which is still valid, someone had to leave of his own volition for that to happen. They couldn't just boot me out of the company, then try to buy my shares back at whatever price they deemed fair. Their offer was both arrogant, and misguided. It also made me realize what I had to do."
So does anyone know if L-eadon or Meisner walked away with nothing, or were they offered and accepted a share buy out?
The other thing I mentioned in another post was whether or not Henley & Felder could have used Frey essentially quiting to coerce him in returning, or lose his shares in all Eagles profits from the day he called it quits?
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Re: Why I no longer am happy with my favorite band
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Originally Posted by
tjrrockandrollmaster
Hey Vector, I know your pain.
The Eagles' feud luckily was not as bad as (per se) Pink Floyd's was. Roger Waters' power trip makes Don Henley and Glenn Frey look humble by comparison (regardless of Waters having duetted with Henley on Roger's Amused to Death album and Roger returning the favor by doing benefit concerts with Don).
Glenn reducing his singing worked out for the band as Henley had the better voice (and the voice most associate with the band) intentionally (I can see why, starting with Desperado (the best four man era album IMHO and I wasn't alive when released in 1973 (disadvantage to being born in 1976) but on first listen as a 9 year old in December, 1985 LOVED IT). Now Roger Waters, on the other hand, reduced guitarist/singer/songwriter David Gilmour, drummer/sound effect master Nick Mason and (rest his soul) keyboard player/songwriter Rick Wright to his sidemen starting with Animals (whereas all albums from the More Soundtrack through Wish You Were Here had Gilmour and Wright writing most (if not all) of the music and Waters handled most of the lyrics and what not). Roger rejecting Wright's ideas and much of Gilmour's ideas for Animals (hence why Gilmour and Wright did solo albums in 1978) and distanced himself from the band to fly to shows via helicopter whilst the rest of the band either shared or had separate limos. Roger never liked Rick and he wasn't friends with Gilmour really as well (Waters is still somewhat resentful that Gilmour and Mason and Wright carried on as PF without him). First order of business on The Wall was Roger kicked Wright out during the mixing of The Wall but Wright stayed as a salaried musician and did the album and tour (was only member of PF to make money on that tour). During The Wall shows, the band members all had separate trailers as they hated each other.The Final Cut was Roger's way or the highway (Nick Mason's drums are absent and Gilmour's guitar and vocals and contributions were mute and Gilmour and Waters did have a couple fistfights during The Final Cut sessions, I do know luckily The Eagles never had fistfights in the studio though came close on stage).
Glenn (to his credit) at least didn't pull a Roger Waters and sue his bandmates (Roger sued Gilmour and Mason (whom both brought back Wright into the band after Waters QUIT on his own choice and declared PF "OVER")). I had an opportunity to see The Eagles in 1994 but Pink Floyd won out that year (coincidentally was the final time they toured). I'm considering this tour so I can scratch seeing The Eagles off of my "bucket list" (at least their tickets are cheaper than Mick Jagger and Keith Richards' circus).
I apologize for bringing the Pink Floyd into the thread (my Autism can manifest itself).
I am not posting in this thread but I cannot agree with this statement. I have always thought, and I still do, that it was wrong for Glenn to reduce his vocals so drastically. I cannot agree that Henley's is the voice most associated with the band or that it is 'better'. I have nothing more to say on this issue but I could not let that pass.
I will say this though; Glenn's cutting back on his vocals to allow Henley to shine shows a generosity of spirit on Glenn's part & an acknowledgement of talent that some seem incapable of recognising. He did not turn the band into a vehicle for himself; in fact he did the reverse.
Re: Why I no longer am happy with my favorite band
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Originally Posted by
Freypower
I am not posting in this thread but I cannot agree with this statement. I have always thought, and I still do, that it was wrong for Glenn to reduce his vocals so drastically. I cannot agree that Henley's is the voice most associated with the band or that it is 'better'. I have nothing more to say on this issue but I could not let that pass.
I will say this though; Glenn's cutting back on his vocals to allow Henley to shine shows a generosity of spirit on Glenn's part & an acknowledgement of talent that some seem incapable of recognising. He did not turn the band into a vehicle for himself; in fact he did the reverse.
SO AGREE WITH THIS...:thumbsup:
Re: Why I no longer am happy with my favorite band
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Originally Posted by
Glennhoney
SO AGREE WITH THIS...:thumbsup:
It is true that Glenn can be generous much of the time. The first album Glenn and Randy had three tracks each while Don and Bernie each had two as lead vocals go.
Desperado had Glenn and Don each have three lead vocal tracks apiece, one where they split 50/50. Bernie had two and Randy had one.
On the Border saw Glenn have two sole lead vocal tracks (Already Gone and James Dean), Henley had three which he was lead singer (title cut, Never cry and Best of My Love), the two sharing lead on two tracks (Ol' 55 and Good Day in Hell), Randy had two tracks (Midnight Flyer and the uderrated Is it True?) and Bernie had one lead vocal (My Man).
Then One of These Nights (the first #1 album for the band) had Henley have two lead vocal tracks (title cut and Hollywood Waltz), Randy had two (Too Many Hands and the Top 5 Take It to the Limit), Bernie (I Wish You Peace) and Felder (Visions) and Frey (the Top 5 Lyin' Eyes) each had one apiece, Glenn and Don split one track (After the Thrill).
Hotel California and The Long Run (both chart toppers as well) had Henley sing the lion's share of tracks (five on HC (title cut, Life in the Fast Lane, Wasted Time, Victim of Love and the masterpiece Last Resort) and five on TLR (title cut, Disco Strangler, Those Shoes, Greeks and Sad Cafe)) with Glenn having one lead vocal on each (the #1s "New Kid in Town" and Heartache Tonight), The Long Run had Henley/Frey sharing lead on two songs. Joe had a lead vocal on each (Pretty Maids on HC and In the City on TLR). Randy had one on Hotel (Try and Love Again) and Timothy B Schmit on The Long Run (I Can't Tell You Why).
Glenn could play a good lead guitar as well but he knew he couldn't compete with Joe Walsh nor Don Felder as far as shredders could go and even told Redbeard that Walsh and Felder could play more guitar in one day than he could in his entire life.
Re: Why I no longer am happy with my favorite band
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Originally Posted by
tjrrockandrollmaster
It is true that Glenn can be generous much of the time. The first album Glenn and Randy had three tracks each while Don and Bernie each had two as lead vocals go.
Desperado had Glenn and Don each have three lead vocal tracks apiece, one where they split 50/50. Bernie had two and Randy had one.
On the Border saw Glenn have two sole lead vocal tracks (Already Gone and James Dean), Henley had three which he was lead singer (title cut, Never cry and Best of My Love), the two sharing lead on two tracks (Ol' 55 and Good Day in Hell), Randy had two tracks (Midnight Flyer and the uderrated Is it True?) and Bernie had one lead vocal (My Man).
Then One of These Nights (the first #1 album for the band) had Henley have two lead vocal tracks (title cut and Hollywood Waltz), Randy had two (Too Many Hands and the Top 5 Take It to the Limit), Bernie (I Wish You Peace) and Felder (Visions) and Frey (the Top 5 Lyin' Eyes) each had one apiece, Glenn and Don split one track (After the Thrill).
Hotel California and The Long Run (both chart toppers as well) had Henley sing the lion's share of tracks (five on HC (title cut, Life in the Fast Lane, Wasted Time, Victim of Love and the masterpiece Last Resort) and five on TLR (title cut, Disco Strangler, Those Shoes, Greeks and Sad Cafe)) with Glenn having one lead vocal on each (the #1s "New Kid in Town" and Heartache Tonight), The Long Run had Henley/Frey sharing lead on two songs. Joe had a lead vocal on each (Pretty Maids on HC and In the City on TLR). Randy had one on Hotel (Try and Love Again) and Timothy B Schmit on The Long Run (I Can't Tell You Why).
Glenn could play a good lead guitar as well but he knew he couldn't compete with Joe Walsh nor Don Felder as far as shredders could go and even told Redbeard that Walsh and Felder could play more guitar in one day than he could in his entire life.
Thanks; I am well aware of the breakdown of lead vocals. I was not referring to his ability as a guitarist, but I would submit that he is underrated.
My point is that he recognised the talent of other people & sometimes he seemed to emphasise that to his own detriment. And I repeat that some will not give him credit for this or acknowledge that it was as much part of his leadership role as coercing his bandmates & giving them orders.
Re: Why I no longer am happy with my favorite band
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Originally Posted by
Houston Debutante
If they had gone on without Glenn, I'll tell you what it would have been: Don Henley and his back-up band.
My thinking would not be so much that Frey be left out if he wanted to return, because he has to many signature songs that would sound different without him. Look at how Take It To The Limit sounds without Meisner for example. Or even the other songs that Felder was prominent on sound different.
Instead I was wondering if Frey would have given up his shares in Eagles Ltd. if Henley and Felder essentially said return or your out? Keep in mind that we are speaking with the knowledge they did get back together in the mid 90's. What would happen if Frey just continued to refuse to this day, and all the others wanted to go forward?
That's not me saying that ~ Don said it himself according to Shapiro's book, but you can see how it would be true. Before HFO, Timothy had one Eagles song under his belt, Joe had two, and Felder had one. Let's say they do a new album and they each sing three songs on that.
First, is that book worth the read compared with all the others I've read so far?
Here I think you are giving Frey too much credit, or not enough to the other guys. When faced with coming up with material, they would have created more songs. Henley had taken the lead in the number of vocals anyway, singing the lions share even with Frey.
Additionally, Walsh certainly has had plenty of hits over the years, and Schmit was no slouch either. While Felder was not a strong lead singer, his voice is not bad, and lets not forget how he added so much to many of the songs with his creative music/playing.
Lastly, it is not inconceivable that L-eadon and/or Meisner may have come back once Frey was no longer with them.
Food for thought.
Better for Don to continue with his hugely successful solo career than be part of something like that, and he knew it.
Maybe so, but the allure of being in a band seemed fairly strong with him as it is in several books/articles, as well as in the Doc.
You have a problem with Glenn breaking up the Eagles because it left others 'not able to play.' Well, they could play, they just couldn't make as much money. Still, if Glenn doesn't want to do it because he's unhappy, is he supposed to just show up out of pity for the other guys because they can't get anyone to buy their solo material ~ other than Don, of course? That's ridiculous.
Again this comment is with hindsight in mind. First, as talented as Frey is, there was no assurance that he would be successful. I know of quality albums sitting out there on shelves collecting dust because they didn't catch on for one reason or another.
Regardless, you talk about Frey's unhappiness as if his had higher value than the other guys. Many of them were unhappy, but they still wanted to go on.
Based on everything I've watched and read, Henley, Felder, Walsh, and Schmit all wanted to carry on, it was only Frey who decided to call it quits. That is another reason why I wonder about the Eagles Ltd. By-Laws. If there was a clause in there about quitting equated to a loss of ones shares(as in what likely happened with L-eadon & Meisner) why did Frey not lose his?
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Re: Why I no longer am happy with my favorite band
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Originally Posted by
Glennhoney
I've been reading this "post" for the past several days and I'm left wondering why you, Vector, would want to join "The Border" if you're so unhappy with your "favorite" band? As you may have noticed, the "borderers" LOVE their EAGLES and are very well informed and passionate about the "boys". Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but why start an "I hate Glenn Frey" campaign (my opinion only) on our beloved Glenn Frey page? I for one, love Glenn for his music and his savvy in the music world...but I certainly do not know him personally and therefore, would NOT judge his actions or inactions, whatever they may be. All I know is that a Michigan teenager made a huge impact in the music world and after 40 years, he still is...and frankly, that's all that REALLY matters....:thumbsup:
Maybe from your point of view this is an anti-Frey thread, but that is not the way I see it. Isn't it possible that any criticism of him causes his fans to be more sensitive than say a Schmit fan might be?
As to your overall question as to why I am here, my initial way of finding this forum was when I was setting up research material. I decided that I needed to be better informed other than just watching the Doc. Keep in mind I still cannot explain why I got so interested, because I play and watch sports, am fairly busy day to day, and into all sorts of things not related to R&R band drama. I am also the captain of a amateur sports team and make the decisions for 18+ guys, so I know what it takes to be the leader of men. That is probably why I see faults in the way Frey and Henley went about things. In putting their interest above others, it was a recipe for the problems they faced down the road.
I guess it is just because I enjoyed the Eagles music so much, that I got intrigued listening to them explain why it all fell apart.
Had it gone along the narrative of "Frey & Henley wanted to kill each other and mutually called it quits", I might not have been as interested because that is what I'd heard as the reason from years ago.
But the Doc almost ignored their conflict, and instead made it seem as if all sorts of problems were outside of those two. Then when you hear Frey and Henley sounding not to kind about their bandmates and business associates, it didn't add up.
it might also be that I thought much better of Frey and Henley, but they came off as being jerks at times.
Let me give you an example of where I'd have been predisposed to totally be on Henley's side until I watched the Doc.
Obviously the Eagles had problems with Geffen and eventually sued him. Not that I would have cared, but I had no clue. So I was then surprised to hear that Henley went back with him during his solo career, only to once again leave him after he was successful. Listening to them both, I'm thinking Geffen might have a point, so I want to learn more about this. [I should point out that I am involved in the business as a side line, so that might be part of the reason on this aspect].
The bottom line is that I would have given Henley the benefit of the doubt because I like him, and do not like Geffen on a personal level at all. Still the Doc made Geffen seem like he was on the right side of things in some aspects, so I was left shaking my head wanting to know more.
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Re: Why I no longer am happy with my favorite band
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Originally Posted by
Vector
Instead I was wondering if Frey would have given up his shares in Eagles Ltd. if Henley and Felder essentially said return or your out? Keep in mind that we are speaking with the knowledge they did get back together in the mid 90's. What would happen if Frey just continued to refuse to this day, and all the others wanted to go forward?
Very briefly, this would not have happened because Frey was the leader of the band & Henley & Felder were in no position to make such a demand. When Frey left, the band broke up. This was accepted by the other four. They made no attempt to continue. Also, they could not have reformed if Frey had not wished to do so.
As others have tried to explain to you it would have been Henley & his backing band & it would not have worked. You can speculate all you like. You can deride Frey all you like. It would not have worked.
Now as far as I am concerned I have made the only response to you I wish to make. All else to me to use a line I am sure TJ would recognise is 'running over the same old ground' and I am not going to do it.
Re: Why I no longer am happy with my favorite band
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freypower
Very briefly, this would not have happened because Frey was the leader of the band & Henley & Felder were in no position to make such a demand.
I still am catching up on other replies but I'll address this one real quick.
You say it would not have happened, and it obviously didn't. However I suspect not for the reasons you think.
Just as Frey/Henley felt as 2/3 owners they could fire Felder, I suspect Henley/Felder could have attempted the same with Frey. Needless to say it would not have been successful, just like it wasn't when Frey/Henley tried it.
Yet that is not what I am saying.
If fellow owners L-eadon & Meisner walked away and presumably lost their shares in Eagles Ltd., so too could it have happened to Frey, as he was not a majority owner.
When Frey left, the band broke up. This was accepted by the other four. They made no attempt to continue. Also, they could not have reformed if Frey had not wished to do so.
I disagree, and it is not backed up by the facts. Everyone wanted to go on(if not after a break), but they wanted everyone, including Frey to come back to the nest. Most even said so in the Doc, much less it being backed up elsewhere. Heck they even got back into the studio again, all hoping Frey was coming(as Azoff had said), yet he was a no show.
I can tell you this much. If I were one of the other 4 guys, especially either Henley or Felder as 2/3 owners, I'd have taken a vacation, then got on the phone with Frey and tried to get him to come back. If he refused, I'd have given him the same ultimatum the others guys who left received.
If you are quiting the group, your shares are forfeited back to Eagles limited unless you return.
Of course my goal would be to get him back as it would be best for everyone. However after you go through A-Z with praise and cajoling in between, and the guy basically tells you to pound sand, he would suffer the same fate he put the other original members through business wise.
As others have tried to explain to you it would have been Henley & his backing band & it would not have worked. You can speculate all you like. You can deride Frey all you like. It would not have worked.
It is not a matter of deriding Frey, as I've also been complimentary toward him as well.
As to it not working, let me ask you a simple question then. Had Frey refused to come back after 14 years, would you prefer the Eagles never play another note of music together? Even if 4, or even 6 of the original members all wanted to go on tour together?
